The FRC planning documents, thanks Chris!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
B800 'Problem'
(58 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Thanks guys.
Looks like it is only a public transport link to the B800, so not so bad in that sense.
So lets just say I'm coming up out of Queensferry to head for Kirkliston I will have to cross 4 toucan crossings (there is one just north of the roundabout) to access the southbound cycle lane. I'll stick to the road I think.Posted 9 years ago # -
Southbound access to the cycle path is quite a problem too, it being behind railings and on the wrong side of the road. The toucan crossings aren't a good answer, especially if they always make you wait like the existing.
Do please press them on the facilities, I don't think they realise.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Do please press them on the facilities, I don't think they realise
What if your job depends on frequently "not realising" ?
Never mind the quangos, see you in the bus lane
Posted 9 years ago # -
I received a reply from the FRC mob. Wasn't particularly satisfactory, along the lines of we're providing what we were asked to, nothing more nothing less. Take it up with transport Scotland if you're not happy.
Basically toucan crossing (with fences) access to new path at the Ferrymuir roundabout, nothing west of that at all until you get to the new bridge access intersection where you're expected to get off the road and wait at two sets of toucan's again.Posted 9 years ago # -
Meanwhile on the other bridge -
"
bridge bosses are so concerned about motorists slowing down to admire the new crossing that they are cutting the speed limit on the neighbouring Forth Road Bridge from 50mph to 40mph from the spring. Average speed cameras will be installed along three miles of the A90 and M90 until the completion of the new bridge.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Interesting exchanges today -
https://twitter.com/dnmnsmith/status/568019843074670592
More -
https://mobile.twitter.com/dnmnsmith/status/568062179578159104
Posted 9 years ago # -
From the look of the plans on the south side of the river, the only active travel improvements from this project is the path from the Ferrymuir roundabout to the Dundas estate. Say about 500m and a few toucan crossings thrown in for good measure.
Contact address for the new crossing at transport Scotland is frcenquiries@transportscotland.gsi.gov.uk
Posted 9 years ago # -
to: frcenquiries@transportscotland.gsi.gov.uk
As a long term cyclist using the B800 to commute to work, I was recently cycling southbound at a routine 25mph, when a Transport Scotland contractor driver pulled alongside me, and told me I should be across the road on the cycle path.
I looked over, and saw the same old unmaintained, unsegregated shared use pavement, that gives way at every possible junction counter to the flow of regular B800 traffic, of which I am part.
A couple of days ago, I got the same treatment from a local landrover driver, presumably from Dundas Estate, with much abuse of his horn, to indicate his displeasure at sharing the road.
I never used to get any hassle prior to your recent roadworks, which purport to improve conditions for cycle traffic in this area.
Please be advised that you are not providing a dedicated "cycleway", or a facility that befits commuting cyclists. Your shared use pavement footway does not allow me to cycle to work in a timely fashion due to junction conflicts, inappropriate shared use conflicts, and furthermore presents significant access problems southbound at both ends, being on the wrong side of the road for direction of travel.
I question the right of your Transport Scotland driver pulling alongside to converse with me while I travel at speed on what remains a potholed road surface.
These drivers may feel that i am under obligation to use your inadequate shared use footway, however I expect you to now formally advise your staff and contractors that I am under no such legal requirement.
if this email address is not the correct one for my complaint, please pass it on to the correct person, and copy me in, thanks.
I look forward to your considered reply.
Posted 9 years ago # -
'providing what we were asked to, nothing more nothing less'
At the regular briefings the contractors give locally, they seem rather proud of proposals they make to improve designs and do things better. They also seem quite proud of the safety improvements they've brought on the A90.
So it seems disengenious to shrug their shoulders and point the finger over this part of the design.
Posted 9 years ago # -
dunnno why you called it a "lovely path" on twitter, duncans.
they'll use that out of context as an endorsement of the overall facility.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Pick your battles. Doesn't encourage them at all if you're unrelentingly negative. As easy as that could be.
Posted 9 years ago # -
best of luck with the positive reinforcement in your dealings with the cynical corporate juggernaut !
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yep, try good cop/bad...
AND more people better!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Speaking of which, need to sort out my Spokes membership.
Posted 9 years ago # -
'Contact address for the new crossing at transport Scotland is frcenquiries@transportscotland.gsi.gov.uk'
I did find Transport Scotland most unhelpful. For example they ignored a perfectly polite and reasonable request to see the plans (above). Perhaps they are embarrased about them. I got the plans from the FRC contractor who have been more forthcoming and helpful.
It helps that the FRC Contractors make themselves available at the fairly frequent open days/briefings, as opposed to Transport Scotland hiding in an office in Glasgow ignoring queries.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've never had a reply from Transport Scotland on any matter.
They do however have a statutory duty to respond if you mention the word "complaint".
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm mulling a response to the response, but when the PR response says:
"There is no intention to exclude cyclists from using this bus lane."
and the documentation (such as I can find) describes this section as:
"dedicated bus connection" (p 16)
...do you think the actual implemented result will be 'dedicated bus lane' as at Bankhead Drive, or 'shared use' bus lane?
The road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I got a copy n paste reply from Transport Scotland, probably the same one that you got Duncans.
It did mention that cyclists would not be excluded from the bus lane, but the general tone of the reply was "go away, I can't be bothered with your enquiry".
I had asked abut the lack of improvements along the A904, which is being rebuilt and re-aligned at the moment. Alas I was told to take that up with the council, as that is nothing to do with them.Posted 9 years ago # -
Reply below
Further to your recent correspondence with Forth Crossing Bridge Constructors (FCBC), I would like to take the opportunity to clarify a number of points which I hope you will find helpful.
It is anticipated that the northbound bus lane to the Echline Junction would operate in the same manner as other bus lanes within the City of Edinburgh Council area. There is no intention to exclude cyclists from using this bus lane.
The area of the A904 between Echline Junction and Echline Corner is out with the scope of the FRC Project. I would advise you to contact City of Edinburgh Council regarding the local road and footpath configuration in this area.
With regards to the expected access route for cyclists between Echline Estate and the new footway/cycleway on the B800, we confirm that new pedestrian and cyclist facilities will be provided as appropriate on the new sections of carriageway being constructed as part of the Forth Replacement Crossing Project, including on the new section of A904 at Queensferry Junction and on the B800 south of Ferrymuir Roundabout. However, and with respect to the sections of road unaltered by the project, these continue to be owned, operated and maintained by the City of Edinburgh Council.
In terms of a route for cyclists, we would note that access from Echline Estate to the B800 can be taken utilising the B924 Bo'ness Road, Hopetoun Road and the B907 Kirkliston Road. Alternatively, and following completion of the works, cyclists may choose to utilise a more direct route to the new cycle facilities on the B800, via the A904 and Echline Junction. Cyclists may find the use of this section of carriageway more desirable as it is forecast to be far less trafficked than at present following the opening of the Queensferry Crossing.
I would also highlight that the creation of the Queensferry Crossing will enable the existing Forth Road Bridge to be maintained as a dedicated public transport corridor as part of a Managed Crossing Strategy to carry public transport, pedestrians and cyclists. On completion of the Queensferry Crossing, cycling and walking across the Forth Road Bridge will be a much more pleasant experience given that general traffic it carries will have been switched onto the Queensferry Crossing.
The scheme has been carefully designed to incorporate new sections of footpaths, cycleways and safe crossing points to maintain existing routes, provide linkages to existing official routes, this includes for example improving the cycling provisions within the vicinity of the B800 which connects South Queensferry and Kirkliston.
In line with our enquiries and complaints procedures, the public’s first point of contact with the FRC project should be to the Community Liaison Team which is headed by the Community Liaison Officer (CLO) from the Principal Contract. As you are aware, the CLO is Ewen Macdonell of FCBC and he is supported by a Community Liaison Team, who provide information and support for the community regarding any enquiries or complaints relating to the project. Ewen and his team can be contacted via: 0800 078 6910 and enquiries@forthreplacementcrossing.info The first points of contact for all enquiries and complaints are to the Contractor through the 24-hour project Hotline (0800 078 6910) or in person at the FRC Contact and Education Centre.
Transport Scotland FRC staff are also permanently based at the FRC Contact and Education Centre and are happy to assist with any enquiries you may have. As you are aware, you can also contact FRC Transport Scotland staff using frcenquiries@transportscotland.gsi.gov.uk or by visiting the Contact and Education Centre.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Received a reply to my complaint, however it was aimed squarely at attempting to identify the driver who told me i should be on the shared use footway.
I've reiterated that the primary nature of complaint is Transport Scotland's one size fits all shared use pavement policy which does not treat cycling as transport, therefore it is little wonder that their staff feel they are correct in directing me to use the shared footway rather than occupying road space on the main carriageway.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Latest missive from Jim Eadie on "Active Travel" -
"
Lawrence Shackman of Transport Scotland ensured me that the bus lane facilities on the B800 will be able to be used by cyclists. Wherever possible, Transport Scotland has integrated bus lanes to ensure good connectivity with the existing cycle facilities.
"
That is an accurate quote from a paper letter, I'm not sure what it really means.
Posted 8 years ago # -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-34444427
The A90 & M9 spur is to be shut for 3 Sundays so they can demolish the old B800 bridge.
Traffic will be fun...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Remind me not to cycle in southern Fife the next few Sundays, as the A985 will be even more hellish than usual, I expect...
Posted 8 years ago # -
The response I got from Transport Scotland on use of B800 bus lane included the following:
"In terms of a route for cyclists, we would note that access from Echline Estate to the B800 can be taken utilising the B924 Bo'ness Road, Hopetoun Road and the B907 Kirkliston Road."
Posted 8 years ago # -
@duncans That's helpful of them. I make that a 4.5mile route as an alternative to the 2.5mile direct route.
Using an 80% increase in distance as an acceptable measure of inconvenience, we could do away with the new bridge as any traffic from North of Perth could go via Stirling (65miles) rather than the direct route (40miles)*
*other examples are available.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I make it more like 0.5 km direct, versus a 2km detour via one of Edinburgh's steepest hills.
Remember, "We're committed to making it easier to incorporate active travel choices into your daily routine by cycling and walking".
Posted 8 years ago # -
The B800 works look like they are getting close to completion with a wide-ish footpath and 2nd lane heading down to Tesco roundabout. Still hard to say whether it will be positive or not, but we should be close to knowing soon.
Posted 8 years ago #
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