CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)

(3937 posts)
  • Started 6 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from chdot

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Brexit is incompatible with devolution - that's been clear for three years.

    It would also appear to be incompatible with the rule of law, something that has only come to light recently.

    I predict that will in due course prove not to be compatible with representative democracy.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  2. unhurt
    Member

    The democratic and unchanging Will of the People presumably trumps representative democracy.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  3. Morningsider
    Member

    A Government Minister, in Parliament, asking elected members to knowingly pass legislation that breaks a treaty signed by that Government in January.

    The purpose of that treaty being to support the continued operation of the Good Friday Agreement, which is another treaty, which stopped an armed conflict in the United Kingdom. A conflict that resulted in the deaths of several Members of that Parliament - and very nearly a Tory Prime Minister.

    I don't mean to be melodramatic - but are we actually in the midst of some strange slow-motion right-wing# coup.

    # probably not the right term, hard to think what really encompasses the ungodly coalition of nativists, racists, "free-marketeers", conspiracy theorists, super forecasters, dupes and so on.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  4. unhurt
    Member

  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Morningsider

    They are Anglo-British nationalists I think.

    Today they propose to demolish the devolution we voted for in 1997/8. It is not clear on what basis they think they have the right to do this.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0177/20177.pdf

    Posted 10 months ago #
  6. LaidBack
    Member

    UK State boosting rental market for offices around new Street in Edinburgh. One Union flag logo at one end and Scottish flag at other. Scottish coat of arms?

    Signs of Brexit

    Posted 10 months ago #
  7. daisydaisy
    Member

    @unhurt I saw Ece Temelkuran (how to lose a country, 7 steps from democracy to dictatorship) at the book festival a few years ago. She said that no matter how bad your country has got, it can still get worse. Which was pretty chilling to hear in the aftermath of the brexit vote. I moved to Norway.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    “I moved to Norway.”

    Really?

    Still there?

    How is it??

    Posted 10 months ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    “UK ministers are getting the powers to overrule not only international but also national law? By now were well used to seeing this in other parts of the world but Britain?


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/10/fears-grow-that-uk-is-preparing-to-quit-brexit-talks

    Posted 10 months ago #
  10. daisydaisy
    Member

    Norway’s lovely. I miss the people from back in Scotland, but it’s so nice here. Even the weather’s better! There’s a fully segregated cycle path for most of the 5km to my office, and I get paid like a man. I did change jobs just as the pandemic started, so it’s not been great for getting to know people here.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Most people working from home?

    Posted 10 months ago #
  12. daisydaisy
    Member

    Yes, working fully from home for first few months I was there, and now in the office one day a week. At least the children are back at school. There were only about seven weeks of home school. Early lockdown made a huge difference to keeping the virus under control. It was painful to watch the UK in March not locking down.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I connect CCE and Twitter identities. Aha!

    Posted 10 months ago #
  14. daisydaisy
    Member

    Oh yes. I post photos of nice Norwegian cycle infrastructure on twitter.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin


    2/ The advice says the Withdrawal Agreement was ratified by both the EU and UK and entered into force on 1 February. “Since then, no Party can unilaterally change, clarify, amend, interpret or disapply it anymore."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1303968529025249281

    Posted 10 months ago #
  16. unhurt
    Member

    @daisydaisy - oh, she is GOOD. But terrifying.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    EU tells UK: drop Brexit plans to break law or face sanctions

    PM given three-week deadline as EU says withdrawal agreement has already been breached

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/10/fears-grow-that-uk-is-preparing-to-quit-brexit-talks

    Posted 10 months ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    “The law officers do agree that the code itself does not carry the force of law, is not enforceable in the courts, and does not pose a legal bar to action. However, the law officers differ as to the interpretation of the underlying constitutional conventions.”

    It continues: “It is the opinion of the advocate general for Scotland that the terms of the ministerial code expressly reflect a constitutional convention that ministers shall act in accordance with the rule of law, which in his view includes international law. In his opinion that includes the obligation under international law to act in good faith with respect to the UK’s treaty obligations.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/10/governments-top-legal-advisers-divided-over-move-to-override-brexit-deal

    Posted 10 months ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    ---

    "What were they thinking? Whatever it is, I hope they're not thinking of a UK-US bilateral trade agreement to make up for what they might lose."

    US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tells the UK “don’t think you’re going to get a reward" for 'undermining' the Good Friday Agreement.

    https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1304113778515161089

    Posted 10 months ago #
  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    As has been obvious since 2017 the Brits have to choose two out of these three things;

    1) The continuation of the UK of GB&NI
    2) The continuation of the Good Friday agreement
    3) England outside the reach of EU law

    They're having a tantrum because they want all three and more but the grown-ups won't let them.

    If England left the UK of GB&NI we'd be on the road to an equitable solution for everyone. The UK of S,W & NI could quite reasonably apply to join EFTA. Meanwhile England could be run by muscular men in bronze hats living in hilltop forts.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

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    Posted 10 months ago #
  22. LaidBack
    Member

    Fintan on form.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/fintan-o-toole-johnson-s-breaking-of-brexit-pledge-is-smart-arse-duplicity-1.4351880

    The agreement they are trying to break also has a clause in it that allows for arbitration in the European Court of Justice. Impossible to avoid that as they signed it? Otherwise we could all just ignore all that small print stuff.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    Boris Johnson on Brexit and the Irish border

    Asked what he thought would happen at the border if the UK voted to leave the EU, Mr Johnson said during the referendum campaign: “I think the situation would be absolutely unchanged.”

    He went on to talk about the “Common Travel Area”, which allows UK and Irish citizens to move freely between the two countries.

    But as Mr Johnson now knows, there’s a lot more to the Irish border than the Common Travel Area. As both he and his predecessor Theresa May found, Brexit has huge implications for the customs arrangements between the UK and Ireland.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-broken-brexit-promises-half-truths-and-dodgy-predictions-from-all-sides

    (30 Jan 2020)

    Posted 10 months ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The prime minister of the UK of GB&NI claiming to have signed something he didn't understand is quite the look.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    “claiming to have signed something he didn't understand“

    Quite probably true.

    Gove will have said ‘just sign it, we’ll fix it later’.

    EU doesn’t spend enough time on Wikipedia -

    "Perfidious Albion" is a pejorative phrase used within the context of international relations diplomacy to refer to alleged acts of diplomatic sleights, duplicity, treachery and hence infidelity (with respect to perceived promises made to or alliances formed with other nation states) by monarchs or governments of the UK (or England prior to 1707) in their pursuit of self-interest.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidious_Albion

    Posted 10 months ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  28. chdot
    Admin

    From link -

    We have then to face the possibility that our government is planning economic destruction for its own political ends - which are the demise of the state as we know it. And I say that because I cannot find another possible plausible explanation for their actions right now

    A, partially, different explanation is that they have the belief they will be able to control/stop the process when ‘enough’ damage has been done.

    It’s unlikely they will be that competent...

    Posted 10 months ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    Is it true?

    Not really. The prime minister’s argument in favour of the internal market bill is a mixture of truth, untruth and conflation, although there are grounds to criticise the EU’s rather high-handed approach.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/14/brexit-boris-johnson-eu-uk-internal-market-bill

    Posted 10 months ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    He said: "If the Prime Minister wants to tell us that there's another part of this bill that I haven't noticed, that will deal with this supposed threat of a blockade, I will happily give way to him."

    When the Prime Minister failed to respond, the MP said: "There you have it. He didn't read the protocol, he hasn't read the Bill. He doesn't know his stuff."

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18720509.johnson-accused-complete-incompetence-humiliating-take-ed-miliband/

    Posted 10 months ago #

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