Apparently George Osborne is going to resign today.
Cheerio Gideon!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Is the mapping working properly for the petition (past 3 million now)?
It is currently showing about 29,000 signatures from the 5 Edinburgh constituencies in total, yet nearly 44,000 from one constituency - Cities of London and Westminster, - that had fewer voters than that at last General Election.
ps if you saw the map earlier the scale has been changing - 1500 signatures were enough to get a darker shade before but now it is over 5000.
Posted 8 years ago # -
First Minister on Sky TV made a remarkable statement. She'll be making decisions in the best interests of Scotland for economic, cultural and social reasons.
Culture and society.
It's like being back in the seventies, before 'jobs and investment' became the two trump cards in the pack.
Posted 8 years ago # -
She was also saying things on various channels which could be interpreted as 'I'm more interested in staying in the EU than Independence'.
Interesting times.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chdot
If she doesn't bust every gut going to keep Scotland in both the UK and the EU she can be accused of opportunism when she calls the next referendum.
In this way she - quite correctly - respects the decision we made in 2014 and leaves the option open to - regretfully - set the country on course for self-government.
She's closing off lines of attack from the BBC months before they arise.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"regretfully - set the country on course for self-government"
Well yes, but then she has to deal with No/Remain voters wanting EU but perhaps not Indy and hardline SNPers wanting Indy (and perhaps not EU!)
Politically she is probably able to balance that more than most.
3rd IndyRef option of DevoMax would probably have avoided all this!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Very interesting analysis here:
Thoughts on the sociology of Brexit
http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
Posted 8 years ago # -
"No/Remain voters wanting EU but perhaps not Indy and hardline SNPers wanting Indy (and perhaps not EU!)"
Presumably these factions constitute a minority of the electorate in Scotland after last week's fiasco.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Presumably the FM has learnt lessons from IndyRef1 and the Brexit fiasco that it would be helpful (essential?) to be able to articulate a clear and demonstrable plan for the mechanics of independence. It looks like she has the advantage now of offers of constructive dialogue from various EU players, but it remains to be seen what they can actually promise.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@PS
Yes and no.... With any of these referendums the status quo side refuses to prenegotiate as a campaign tactic. The EU question in 2014 could have been settled by a simple request from HMG to the Commission to treat iScotland nicely. The EU would have responded with a concrete plan nice or otherwise.
The EU Leave campaign won by having a minimum of detail, to say the least. No White Paper. Nothing to attack. And no plan to put into effect. Chaos.
In our next affair, to win, we'll need enough detail in order to convince and to move forward on D+1, but not so much detail that the BBC can have a different line of attack each day of the campaign.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
An emergency budget to deal with the fallout from the referendum vote to leave the EU looks unlikely to take place until the autumn, as Chancellor George Osborne said it was better to delay action to shore up the public finances until a new prime minister is in place.
In an early-morning statement at the Treasury, designed to calm market anxieties after the pound fell a further 2 per cent against the US dollar in overnight trading, Mr Osborne insisted that the UK economy is “about as strong as it could be to confront the challenge our country now faces” and said Britain remains “open for business”.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
LONDON — Freed from the shackles of the European Union, Britain’s economy would prosper and its security would increase. Britain would “take back control” of immigration, reducing the number of arrivals. And it would be able to spend about 350 million pounds, or about $470 million, a week more on health care instead of sending the money to Brussels.
Before Thursday’s referendum on the country’s membership in the 28-nation bloc, campaigners for British withdrawal, known as Brexit, tossed out promises of a better future while dismissing concerns raised by a host of scholars and experts as “Project Fear.”
But that was before they won.
...
Having now ousted Prime Minister David Cameron, they face a political vacuum, with their base demanding that promises be kept. Mr. Johnson, the front-runner to replace Mr. Cameron, has not made any further pronouncements since a subdued statement on Friday that was restricted to generalities. If he does become prime minister, Mr. Johnson will face the task of carrying out a British withdrawal without provoking a backlash from those who believed campaign slogans or sentiments that he certainly appeared to endorse.
“In voting to leave the E.U., it is vital to stress that there is now no need for haste,” Mr. Johnson told reporters. Standing alongside him, Mr. Gove promised, “We can have democratic consent for an immigration policy that is fairer and more humane.” He did not explain how.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
is there a chance elections could be called,
such is the state of the SS UK?There is no leadership from Westminster. The only people that have anything to say are not in a position to lead. Endless commentators stand back and admire the handiwork that some helped to create (Mr Murdoch). Dare say they will all go on holiday soon. 'Britain is ok but we don't 'have' to live here.'
Nothing is the same as before so in effect the old UK has to change. I'm hearing that too from outwith Scotland btw.
The vote agreed to 'break' whatever was there before. That mission has been accomplished with much waving of Union flags and St Georges's crosses. The people that have led the 'independence' vote for dis-enfranchised England and Wales* have been shown to be hollow. We must surely have a vote to replace it with something.
Or is that too much democracy? Choices will be forced upon us anyway. In Scotland's case we only have the likelihood of an unacceptable and unsympathetic new pm.
The south has to muster all resources to sort things there. 12000 legal documents need sorted to leave the EU. We'll need to bring in help from the EU to un-couple from the EU!
* Lots made of loss of heavy industries like steel and mines to NE of England. These are also a factor in Scotland yet a different result. Both get EU subsidies but we seem to like our European status. Glasgow European City of Culture legacy I wonder?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@LaidBack
Something has to give. I suspect the flashpoint will come in Northern Ireland. As ever in this happy family of nations, they were never considered in the rush to Brexit. The removal of border controls was one cornerstone of the GFA, EU membership another.
I don't intend to give up my own European citizenship lightly or without a struggle.
It's clear that the current Westminster parliament represents only a tiny sliver of the range of opinions in the four home nations. There's about a four hundred seat pro-Remain majority for one thing.
I'd like to propose a name for this period; The Great Leap Backwards.
Posted 8 years ago # -
IWRATS would it not be more of a Great Stagger Into The Ditch (after aspiring to be PM but never expecting to actually win the referendum, bullet hole cleanly and surprisingly shot through the foot)
Posted 8 years ago # -
nobrakes: not quite sure that works; isn't shooting yourself in the foot supposed to be a way of getting yourself out of a situation you don't want to be in?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cameron speaking NOW.
Corbyn next.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Stickman, that's my understanding of it.
Cameron, for instance, has shot himself in the foot by resigning. Yes he loses his job as the most powerful politician in the UK, his career as a political grandee is over before it began (no Blair-like fees to be commanded on the lecture circuit), but it means he can abdicate himself of the responsibility of what comes next and get himself out of a situation he's entirely responsible for engineering.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Will fully involve Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Governments"
Posted 8 years ago # -
@nobrakes
Alexander Johnston will be fine. His class will rally round to keep him out of any gutters. In any case he has dual US citizenship and can retreat beyond pitchfork range if the balloon does go up.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I suppose that yes you are right in terms of definition, although the common meaning a lot of people now use is to imply accidental injury to oneself, which is the one I meant. However I don't think today's politicians know what their foot is, never mind whether or not to shoot it, intentionally or otherwise.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Whatever happens next in terms of a general election will demonstrate first past the post to be entirely unfit for purpose (proponents have always pointed to "strong and stable government" to be its key benefit - LOLZ).
The clear divisions in both the Conservative and Labour parties mean that you cannot be even remotely confident of what voting for a Labour or Conservative candidate means. The sooner they split in two the better. Then you need PR, or candidates will be getting into Parliament with less than 20% of the votes cast in a constituency.
I doubt the shambles will be enough to make it change though.
It's times like this that a written constitution would really come into its own. Maybe the Queen can step in and sort it out?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Dave Cameron at PM's questions:
'The best outcome would be to keep Scotland in both' (EU and UK?!)'
Did I mis-hear or is that DC being 'funny'.?
Angus Robertson being talked over now on radio...Posted 8 years ago # -
Yes - you heard it here first....
Cameron suggests Scotland should stay in UK and EU single market
House of Commons
Parliament
Posted at
16:01
Angus Robertson says the SNP will support measures to help secure economic stability but will not back further "austerity".He calls on the PM to "take a firm grip of the situation that we all, sadly, find ourselves in".
David Cameron responds that getting the best deal for the UK outside the EU should include the best deal for Scotland. The PM says Scotland is in two single markets - the UK and EU - and ideally should remain in both.
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Read more about these links.LibDems talking about an election....
Posted 8 years ago # -
The PM says Scotland is in two single markets
I presume he's saying that in the context of the EEA being in the single market?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@LaidBack - I think this is called a "reverse Greenland", and I suspect it may be off the cards regardless of the unprecedented nature of the situation...
<stop sniggering at the back>
Robert
Posted 8 years ago # -
Greenland left the EEC, not the EU. Same but different.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Maybe Dave Cameron is 'relaxed' to have bits of the UK still in the EU. Useful asset etc. Amazon would like of course. Plus Easy Jet and all these EU businesses.
Nicola has been speaking with Irish president Michael Higgins today. Also Gibralter is interested in having some EU solution with Scotland as ally.
Posted 8 years ago # -
NS "talking to Chief Minister of Gibraltar"
Posted 8 years ago #
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