"I suppose the lobsters will all be landed in Northern Ireland now for onward shipment to Spain from Rosslare, bypassing Plague Island altogether."
That would be the rational decision for west coast lobstermen.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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AND it wasn’t a binding referendum.
So Rule 2 democracy.
And/or democracy is Rule 2ed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
#Democracy2020
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MPs and peers to rush through bill in one day as lack of debating time branded 'a farce'
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Posted 3 years ago # -
“
Not a single second of evidence has been taken by a Select Committee on the EU-UK Partnership Agreement. And the Committee of whole House will spend half a day nodding through the legislation to implement the Agreement.
A complete and utter failure of parliamentary democracy.
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https://twitter.com/ProfKAArmstrong/status/1344279765042266112
Posted 3 years ago # -
“
Who would have guessed? When push came to shove it turned out that a bad deal was better than no deal after all. The first deal in history to put more barriers in the way of free trade than the one that preceded it. A 1,200-page treaty and 80-page bill that was granted a mere four and a half hours of what passed for scrutiny in a recalled House of Commons to allow it to become law before the end of the year. In most countries this would be called a farce: here in the UK we call it a return of parliamentary sovereignty.
...
But anyone who imagined that was the last we would hear of Brexit had rather missed the point. The lack of detail in the trade bill and the methods of conflict resolution promised a whole new world of pain. Months and years down the line, Tory MPs might not be so easily bought off if the economy flatlines. Boris had better watch his back.
“
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/30/boris-johnson-brexit-vote-tories-bad-deal
Posted 3 years ago # -
MSPs voted by 92 to 30 to say the deal would “cause severe damage to Scotland’s environmental, economic and social interests”, following a debate today.
In this case Richard Leonard does seem to reflect the mood of the country (Scotland) and Keir Starmer seems out of touch?
What does the Guardian say?The BBC gave Douglas Ross time to deride the SNP on their rejection of the woeful deal. This is part of the #Nodealsturgeon campaign to try and wake up the public in Scotland to the fact our democracy is in peril as we aren't happy to add to BJ's 80 seat majority. If only we could be as British in our outlook as the DUP.
But... hang on D Ross, hang on Sir Keir, the DUP just voted it down in Westminster. In fact non of the Northern Ireland parties that take seats at Westminster, voted for this deal - even though the idea of being in two unions might seem a good one with a definite advantage over it's nearest neighbour in Scotland..
Not one party has been consistent on the subject of Europe. Only this mish-mashed, badly thought out 'deal' could unify such a range of opinions! Stormont too has come out against. The Welsh Government did though accept that the deal is less damaging than leaving the transition period without a trade deal. Gibralter - no idea.
Once this has gone through it looks like any chance of regaining EU citizenship is very unlikely inside the UK other than by moving to NI. Labour in England more or less consider the matter closed.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Perhaps Scotland will give up the idea of ‘independence’ and join a united Ireland(?)
Posted 3 years ago # -
"Gibralter - no idea."
The Rock is in the process of being integrated into the Schengen Area. Effectively it will become part of Spain. BINO is not only Brexit In Name Only, but in the case of Gibraltar, British In Name Only as far of FOM, passport control and so on are concerned.
"Perhaps Scotland will give up the idea of ‘independence’ and join a united Ireland(?)"
Given that the "Scoti" were from Ireland it seems apposite. I like the idea of a loose Celtic Federation which might include Wales too, but not England: too big, too many people, too ready to bully smaller nations.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"Once this has gone through it looks like any chance of regaining EU citizenship is very unlikely inside the UK other than by moving to NI."
How would that work? It's based on birthplace, not residency.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I think they've misunderstood.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Who knows, maybe Belfast maternity tourism will become a thing. The Irish state will claim you if born on the island and "one or both of your parents is British or entitled to live in Northern Ireland or the Irish State without restriction on their residency".
Posted 3 years ago # -
“
Tonia Antoniazzi, the MP for Gower, Helen Hayes, the Dulwich and West Norwood MP, and Florence Eshalomi, the MP for Vauxhall, resigned from their junior frontbench posts so as to abstain as MPs voted on the legislation implementing the agreement.
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Can’t say I’ve heard of any of them.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@ MS - How would that work? It's based on birthplace, not residency
True... or if your parents or grandparents were Irish. Mrs LB has been looking!
Had our first former single market Custom Declaration to do. Parcel going DPD to Hamburg. Used to be so easy - now a 6 page pdf file. Attach label. Attach envelope with custom declarations. Look up category for code. Write name, sign and date x 4. State country of manufacture for goods. Only takes an extra ten mins. Done before for Iceland and Norway and used to think 'what a faff - so good we are in single market'!
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Murun
Have you explored the option of becoming a citizen of Ireland yourself?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Interesting, LB. Norway and Iceland are in the single market as defined by the EEA but not in the customs union, hence the documentation.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@IWRATS
I may have ashamedly in the last few days sent off for Irish passports for my daughter & I. If granted to a dissenter such as myself, they will reside in the bottomest of my bureau drawers and be strictly referred to in my presence as flags of convenience :)
Wife qualifies through grandparents but that is a longer timescale project
Posted 3 years ago # -
Passport addendum & aside: after watching The Mercy on iPlayer last night, I learned that the illustration inside the back cover of a modern-day British passport is Gypsy Moth IV, as sailed round the world by Francis Chichester. Historians with an interest in national psychology are going to have a field day with this kind of thing in years to come...
Posted 3 years ago # -
Lab Ian Murray Edinburgh South For
Posted 3 years ago # -
Richard Leonard denied there was any inconsistency in his party’s position. While MSPs are voting against giving the deal legislative consent, Labour’s MPs – including their sole Scottish representative – will vote for the deal.
Leonard told MSPs: “A vote against the proposition in Westminster today is to risk the chaos and damage of a no-deal outcome.
“And you can’t say by voting against it, as SNP MPs will do today, that wasn’t what we meant.
“That’s what will happen, which is why Labour MPs will reluctantly vote for the deal because the alternative would be chaos.”
...or a smaller Tory majority.
BJ sitting in front of four union flags today. What does that mean? He uses two in other briefings. Just in case a flag falls over?
As RL says - do not take the Scottish voter for granted. He's had 40 years in the game and knows how to survive.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The Mike Russel closing speech is excellent.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I heard/met Tonia Antoniazzi in London last year at a meeting about language education and she impressed me.
Posted 3 years ago # -
As I understand it, the Republic of Ireland gave up the constitutional claim to anyone born anywhere in the island as part of the Good Friday agreement.
So maternity tourism wouldn't work after 2005 - now one needs to trace ancestry to someone born in the Republic or the island prior to that date.
Robert
up have
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Roibeard the main constitutional claim was to the territory ("The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas."), although citizenship would no doubt have followed on from that if enforced/accepted.
I don't see why maternity tourism wouldn't work, not that I'm suggesting it - if a child is born on the island of Ireland, there is no residence or ancestry requirement for UK or Irish parents
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ah, I'd not spotted that those born in NI of British parents could still choose...
Doesn't work if your parents aren't British though (obviously Irish parents are fine anywhere).
Robert
Posted 3 years ago # -
For posting parcels to EU.
Posted 3 years ago # -
“
Industry leaders warn of invisible chaos as businesses grapple with trading rules and software systems
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Posted 3 years ago # -
Just to clarify the Labour parties (UK + Scot) seemingly contradictory votes on EU. (from National)
There were angry scenes in the party yesterday morning after Richard Leonard seemingly sent out a press release setting out the party’s position without having first read it. The statement said their MSPs would be voting “to deny legislative consent to Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal”.But then in a further release, sent out under Anas Sarwar’s name, that position had evolved. It said Labour MSPs would be opposing consent to express “deep dissatisfaction with the process in symbolic votes”.
Leonard’s frontbenchers were reportedly furious that the initial release had not set out his support for Keir Starmer’s decision to back the deal.
A Labour source told The Times: “This takes us to a new level of incompetence.”
During the Holyrood debate, Leonard insisted the two parliaments were voting on two different propositions.
He said Labour MPs at Westminster would “reluctantly vote for the deal because the alternative will be chaos”.
After the debate, Sarwar, Labour’s constitution spokesman, defended the party’s votes: “Today the UK Labour Party put the national interest first and prevented No-Deal, and the Scottish Labour Party protected the devolution settlement by stating its opposition to the way in which the Tory Government has catastrophically mishandled Brexit.
“It is deeply encouraging that the Scottish Parliament has endorsed Labour’s call for the Erasmus scheme to be protected and for workers’ rights and environmental standards to be upheld.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Always good to read a statement before sending it out (if true)
Posted 3 years ago #
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