"If article 50 isn't triggered I suspect the legal repercussions wil be far more severe"
I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that there would be none. No one is under any obligation to do it.
Doing it, on the other hand....
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3978 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Well it seems Gideon's found the excuse I presume he was just waiting for.... ****
Posted 7 years ago # -
Time for an academic...
I found his previous input to be helpful, although now entirely academic:
Robert
Posted 7 years ago # -
There is a surge in English Nationalism IMHO. It's been slowly simmering for a decade or so and is now boiling over into inreasingly frequent and increasing public displays of intolleerance and violence.
My (Scottish) relative lives in a pretty little Yorkshire tourist town. She's staying at home, because whenever she visits the library, or a cafe, or simply walks down the street or does her shopping, most of the talk round her is xenophobic, ignorant and anti-foreigner, including anti-Scottish. It's been building that way for a while, but in this last week it's become prevalent. She's afraid, and is worried that the talk could easily escalate to physical attacks. She has reasons for staying put there for now but is making preparations for an escape at short notice should it be necessary.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I also feel that there will be no significant rise in the Ukip vote. I suspect they have peaked."
Yes that really is the unknown unknown.
Partly depends when the next election is.
Additionally depends whether Lab (with/out JC) 'gets back' people who previously voted Lab - and if not will they vote at all, and if so who for?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Gove promising more devolution
Posted 7 years ago # -
Gove promising more devolution
Simultaneously the funniest and bleakest post ever on CCE?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"the funniest and bleakest post ever on CCE?"
Depends if you believe he'll win...
Posted 7 years ago # -
If he even gets on the ballot. Rumour now that May is encouraging the undecideds to back Leadsom so that Gove doesn't get enough votes to get through to the final two. Gambling that she will be more palatable to the party members than Leadsom so gets an easy victory. Presumably she's not learned anything from the last week.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'd imagine he's too odd to win, but I've no knowledge of that electorate and little notion of what the future holds.
And the vote to leave the European Union gives us the chance to renew and reboot the Union. We are taking back control of policy areas like agriculture and fishing that are vital to the economies of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the Scottish Parliament and devolved assemblies can enjoy new powers in these and other areas. I think we need to explore how we can develop a fairly-funded, flexible and robust Union for our new circumstances - and I will work across political divides, with respect, to build that new Union.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The liveried Royal Mail employee delivering my signed-for Rose and Chain Reaction orders just now felt free to give me the benefit of his racist thoughts on the local Poles in the full and certain knowledge that I can identify him to his employer.
I wonder what might have emboldened him?
PS If anyone wants a 1 1/8" to 1" steerer shim they're welcome to it regardless of nationality.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The graph below, restricted to White British respondents, shows almost no statistically significant difference in EU vote intention between rich and poor. By contrast, the probability of voting Brexit rises from around 20 per cent for those most opposed to the death penalty to 70 per cent for those most in favour. Wealthy people who back capital punishment back Brexit. Poor folk who oppose the death penalty support Remain.
http://www.fabians.org.uk/brexit-voters-not-the-left-behind/
(Found from a link to a link to a link to a....)
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Scotland pays more to the EU than it receives in European funding.
However, Scottish ministers fear this will not be passed back from Westminster as part of a Brexit deal.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
BBC debates Scotland's Euro Ref vote. Just finished on TV.
Tom Harris leader of the Scottish Leave campaign pointed out it was a UK vote but doesn't mind discussing it on a BBC Scotland opt out of course.
He did admit though that the Leave side didn't produce a detailed 'White Paper' as they didn't want it examined too much. That brought much laughter from audience not used to such candid remarks. He was also pleased that the Scottish Leave campaign didn't use the £350 million rebate figure. So even though the Leavers 'won' in UK, the Scottish 'losing' element was conducted with higher morals which meant a smaller but better informed leave vote here of 38%. If I understand his take correctly(?)(I think he was hoping for a narrow 'Leave' minority vote across UK so felt the weaker Scottish Leave performance would perfectly trim the excesses of the south. Who knows the exact motivation of each Leave campaign. Assume Ireland and Wales also had their own ones).
Jackie Baillie and Fiona Hyslop often in agreement.
Radio in the morning had Call Kaye asking people to phone in with good things about Brexit (!). Very Radio 5. Cue the 'we're sorting out the cost of the EU and Scotland's next' brigade.
Had to switch off.Posted 7 years ago # -
Suggestion from Toronto about how to steer SS UK.
On a purely mercenary note anything that would help the pound regain against the Euro is worth trying!
Instead we have to watch five Tory failures entertain the London media while botching the economy. Bet they're doing ok financially though.
I've heard that some quasi-anarchists thinks the Leave vote is some sort of anti-capitalist statement.
Well... there's loads more deregulated capitalism outside the EU and the gulf between rich and poor is often wider. Plus environmental regulations are awful which always impact on lower incomes. (Sacrifice Zones in 'This Changes Everything'. Naomi Klein)Posted 7 years ago # -
This is worth watching;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07k7m4x/panorama-why-we-voted-to-leave-britain-speaks
Posted 7 years ago # -
David Hembrow's blog suggests that either by conspiracy or the other reason, many British Citizens outside the UK who applied for a postal vote were faced with a seriously difficult process to get that vote, a delayed delivery of the paperwork, which was the WRONG paperwork, and barely got their votes posted in time - or not at all. How can we find out how many applied, how many successfully voted, how many votes arrived late, and how many were not fulfilled?
http://davidhembrow.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-my-country-was-taken-from-me.html
Likewise, knowing that this 'loading the dice' happened when Jim Sillars lost Govan to Labour. I would be very interested to review the % for direct, postal and proxy voting across the age groups for this poll and for previous polls, compared across the age groups - how many people were 'helped' to cast a postal or proxy vote by one side or the other?
Please please please let us have a General Election - perhaps those 57 Tory MP's with the case of fraudulent polling should lose their seats - that would well scotch the Tory leadership voting, and also trigger an election.
Finally how do we petition the head of state? She has in effect no government as the PM has resigned but failed to actually give a date - surely that means dissolving Parliament?
Posted 7 years ago # -
She has in effect no government as the PM has resigned
Splitting hairs here, but has he not just "tendered his resignation"? Still PM until replaced by new Tory annointee.
I hope the Tories take a look at the medium-term consequences of what happened when Labour last installed a new PM without a General Election.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The confusion is caused I think by the widespread idea that the Prime Minister is elected. They aren't - they're appointed by the Sovereign, who invites them to form a government by seeking the consent of a majority of MPs. We elect individual MPs, nothing else. Our involvement in government ends there. Except when a referendum is called, obviously.
We still have a Prime Minister, a cabinet and a government, though it's odd that anyone would feel the need to point that out.
I expect the Chilcot Report's publication will now cause the Labour Party to form an elephant's foot, so whoever the Conservatives choose to be leader will glide forward with serenity and dread purpose.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"They aren't - they're appointed by the Sovereign"
In theory. So when was the last time a sovereign refused to appoint as PM the leader of the party which gained a majority of seats in the House of Commons?
Technically no law is passed until it has gained royal assent either. The last time that assent wasn't granted? 1708.
In all practical aspects we (more and more it seems) vote for a PM (so many people know nothing of their local reps, and are voting on the personality of the leader, as evidenced by the growth in leader debates). We choose. We decide. We elect. The Queen rubber-stamps. And will always rubber-stamp. We have much much more say in the matter than the Queen (can you imagine the constitutional crisis, and public outcry, if the Queen decided to overrule the will of the people?).
"We still have a Prime Minister, a cabinet and a government, though it's odd that anyone would feel the need to point that out."
I think people are more concerned that they aren't properly functioning, rather than not being there at all.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Assume Cameron has only handed the towel back to Her Madge as PM, he's not heading for a retirement home in the Chiltern Hundreds is he?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"can you imagine the constitutional crisis, and public outcry, if the Queen decided to overrule the will of the people?"
Depends if/which newspapers orchestrated the outcry.
"will of the people" - as demonstrated in a referendum?
A remarkable number of people seem to have regretted their recent vote already. Wonder how many more will after their next summer holiday abroad...
Posted 7 years ago # -
A remarkable number of people seem to have regretted their recent vote already.
So say the opinion polls. The opinion polls that got it wrong the first time round. How do we know they are right this time?
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Wilmington's Cow
True, but my point is about the lazy characterisation of the post of PM as 'elected'. You hear it so often that people think it's true and that it's then an outrage when someone is appointed outside of a general election.
The Sovereign of course has two vetos, the public one that's never used now and the private one that is used.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The current monarch was very involved in the discussions about which party leader would be PM in 1974.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
THE European flag has been raised at the City Chambers in a show of solidarity with EU citizens amid a political row over their future status.
Lord Provost Donald Wilson oversaw a ceremony during which the banner was flown to “honour” the Capital’s European residents following the Brexit vote on June 23.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Here's the gentleman who's in charge of negotiating the constitutional future of our country;
http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/46df4956-a397-4fc2-ad0a-20f70fb08e65
Posted 7 years ago #
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