Mmm
Hard to tell if the paper is being 'officially launched', relaunched or just used to further the idea of Federalism as an alternative to IndyRef2.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Reading up on Federalism on Wikipedia;
UK federal government was proposed as early as 1912 by the Member of Parliament for Dundee, Winston Churchill
Posted 8 years ago # -
"was proposed as early as 1912"
Yes, not a new idea.
Presume WC was a Liberal then.
Still LibDem policy.
If DevoMax/Federalism had been an IndyRef option things might have been different...
Main problem would be if England was one unit, then it would overwhelm (bit like Westminter!).
Two Jags tried assemblies for bits of England - but the natives didn't want it!
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I'd say if you want to call yourself Scottish, you're Scottish."
A friend was born in London, stayed in Pakistan and Yorkshire as a child before moving to Glasgow where she has made a life for herself.
As far as I'm concerned she is as Scottish as me (born in Paisley, went to school in Ayrshire).
Just back from a week in Dorset. Didn't get any snatch from the locals over the Brexit but then friends in London have claimed that I seem aggressive so perhaps people were scared to mention it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Even the BBC are shooting holes in the 'federal UK half in, half out of the EU' thing now.
I guess it's just a flimsy smokescreen for the real hard decision steaming down the tracks at us all.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
More than 1,000 have signed a letter to Mr Cameron which says the referendum result is “advisory” and not legally binding.
They say primary legislation will be needed before Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - the route via which members states leave the EU - can be triggered.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
Leadsom out!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Had a hard discussion with my father about it yesterday he voted remain like me but says it was a democratic decision and "they should just get on with it" *sigh*
Posted 8 years ago # -
The latest federalism push is coming from the Constitutional Reform Group, which claims itself to be "all party" but because it is a Lords group it doesn't include one notable Scottish party.
The panel has some learned legal minds, but is headed by hereditary peer Robert Michael James Gascoyne-Cecil, 7th Marquess of Salisbury KCVO PC PL, so readers may be worried that it may be rather lofty and disconnected and not provide an adequate and balanced opinion and reflection of the popular consensus. However we need fear not, it has Thatcher's man in Scotland "The Lord Forsyth of Drumlean", Thatcher's peachwriter and advisor The Lord Dobbs, Frank "Thatcher is Certainly a Hero" Field and leading Labour Brexiteers Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart amongst its members and advisors. The Lords Fossil Kirkwood of Kirkhope, Mackay of Clashfern and Campbell of Pitenween complete the Scottish representation.
I say we hear them out, I mean who better to fundamentally reform an establishment that has proved almost incapable of reforming itself in any meaningful way than the establishment itself.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thatcher's peachwriter
:-DPosted 8 years ago # -
TM (almost) PM.
Think that's the end of the chance of an 'early' election.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well, that and Angela Eagle for squashing an election.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I just realised that I haven't listened to a single second of BBC political coverage since the EU vote.
I often listen to R4's Today in the morning, but I'm just not interested any more. I haven't listened to BBC Scotland since Reporting Scotland's parochialism made me incandesce twenty years ago.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Some stories suggest there may be an entirely new party"
The Guardian story has been overtaken by events.
"
Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed."
The Spectator story is about a pro Remain/Europe party which sounds like a 'single issue' party. It's either too late for such a party, or perhaps too early.
If TM negotiates something that looks like 'being more in the EU than out' then less point in starting a new party. If Brexit turns out to mean isolation, then a new party might have some support.
There's not much point in a new party unless there is a good chance of winning quite a few Westminster seats - not easy of course with FPTP - and not helped by the (near) certainty that a GE is 4 years away.
Anyone want to start a party based on the notion that there will be an election in a couple of years to 'endorse' the Brexit settlement?
Pro Remain Tory or Labour people at odds with their own parties could take over the LibDems!
The primary unknown remains UKIP. Leaderless. Rules devised to keep out some wannabes (candidates must have been in the party for 5 years).
On one level it's achieved its single-issue aim. Is it willing to completely front-up its 'subsidiary' policy of
stoppingcontrolling immigration. Of course 'controlling our borders' and 'an Australian points system' isn't the same as 'no more immigrants' - even less 'and send some back' (which a minority of voters clearly imagine is a possibility).Even Nigel F seemed quite keen on the idea of making it easier for 'our people from the Commonwealth' to come here (instead of EU free-movement).
Could UKIP become an anti-racist alternative to the (possibly collapsed) Labour Party. Nigel F has pretended/believed he (and the Leave campaign) is on the side of 'ordinary people' and against 'big business'.
Now TM is planning to put workers on company boards and curb executive pay.
The future is fiction.
(Of course that's all about the UK, and not taking into account the SNP and the real possibility that Independence could be a threat/opportunity in the next few years - and not covering the chance that the Greens might make something out of this chaos!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I can't see UKIP being an anti-racist alternative to anything. When Farage talked about making it easier for people to come from the Commonwealth, I don't think he was intending those people to be Nigerians or Bangladeshis.
Posted 8 years ago # -
You should try holidaying in rural Norfolk it is kippers all the way
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I can't see UKIP being an anti-racist alternative to anything."
Neither can I, but these days *anything* is possible!
"I don't think he was intending those people to be Nigerians or Bangladeshis"
Almost certainly not, but I think he made a deal of being 'colour blind' a while ago.
Not that he's in charge anymore.
"it is kippers all the way"
But what do they want?
UKIP has 'delivered' Brexit, so what will it offer its past and potential voters (especially the ones who are currently "ex-Labour")?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
The former Labour MP predicted the party would split by the end of the year and called for the creation of a new centre left group. He said:
I think, whichever way it goes, there is a near inevitability that the Labour Party will split, perhaps not immediately, but certainly within the year.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
If I was a Kipper I'd re-orient the organisation as an authoritarian indigenous workers' party mixing a hard-line on scroungers with respect for hard working families and natural authority figures with a veneer of opposition to financialisation.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I'd re-orient the party as an authoritarian indigenous workers' party mixing a hard-line on scroungers with respect for natural authority figures and a veneer of opposition to financialisation"
Maybe that's TM's plan - she's started with plans to put workers on company boards and restrict the differential between top and bottom pay rates!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Maybe that's TM's plan
To be honest I think that's where the non-JC side of the Labour party would quite like to go. It's a huge market segment with no product to consume.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Jez wins at NEC 18-14. Superb.
Posted 8 years ago # -
So Angela will withdraw?
Followed by 'CU in court'??
Posted 8 years ago # -
Jez wins at NEC
Well, one vote. His supporters in the £3 seats appear to have been disenfranchised en masse and either have 2 days to pay £25 (watch that particular online membership system fall over) or apparently can pay something to a Union and get affiliate status and therefore voting rights.
Owen Smith (whomever he is) is now standing against Jezza.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The template has existed for a number of years.
Didn't Mosley's British Union have the same idea?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Mr Corbyn's original £3 supporters will be OK as they have been members for more than 6 months. Only new ones need to pay the higher cost.
I think.
It's sometimes hard to follow Labour rules.
Apparently both challengers are unity candidates… looks more like splitters to me.
Posted 8 years ago # -
On Owen Smith (no, me neither.)
"Began his career as a BBC journalist, where he worked for 10 years as a radio and television producer, including on BBC Radio 4's Today programme"
Well, the conspiracy theorists amongst us might draw inferences from this. I wonder if Laura Kuenssberg will be as receptive to him as she is to Jez.
Posted 8 years ago # -
That Owen Smith? Say it ain't so.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It is so.
(sorry)Posted 8 years ago #
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