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Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)

(3979 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from LaidBack

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  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Didn't Mosley's British Union have the same idea?

    Thanks for the question, which prompted me to read Mosely's short book 'The Greater Britain'.

    There are similarities between the BUF and the Front National's programmes but - in the most brutal terms - the absence of WWII in one and the experience of invasion and slavery by a fascist army in the other shines through. The FN remain for the time being a republicain, democratic party willing to be voted out of office.

    There are great quotes in the Mosely book. It seems to be the origin of the 'Britain First' party name. This is...prophetic;

    At the end of that franchise a new election will be held on an Occupational Franchise - a steel worker will vote as a steel worker, a doctor as a doctor, a mother as a mother - within their Corporation.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. wee folding bike
    Member

    Ruth Davidson and Ken Macintosh both worked for the BBC in the past and Mrs Swinney did, not sure if she still does.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "not sure if she still does"

    Yes, possibly as a freelance.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Eeeek;

    In the degeneration of that (parlimentary) system it
    has become a game of very sharp practices with the
    sole object of replacing the set of men in Office
    with another set of men who obtain their places by
    any panic cry which may serve the purpose of the
    moment however dishonest or however irrelevant
    it may be to the real issues before the Nation.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    By some piece of cosmic synchronisation it has emerged that Oswald Mosley's son finances the deputy leader of the Labour party. Honestly don't know what to make of that.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. stiltskin
    Member

    Boris Foreign secretary!!! Please wake me up.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    That should have woken you up!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. LaidBack
    Member

    Boris follows in a long line of Tory comedians that have taken on this role.
    Did Rifkind not do a season of this?
    Southern English politics is all a bit Gilbert and Sullivan. While the media 'big up' these failures the rest of us suffer.

    Anyone else feel democratically angry at this charade?
    We're about to get a third thing we didn't vote for. Brexit, May, Renew Trident.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. acsimpson
    Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/13/billionaires-bought-brexit-controlling-britains-political-system

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The French foreign minister has just called Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs a habitual liar 'with his back to the wall';

    http://www.europe1.fr/international/jean-marc-ayrault-que-va-devenir-leurope-2799298

    this isn't going to go well.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    We have a foreign secretary who views the world through the lens of a Little Black Sambo book.

    This really isn't going to end well.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    This really isn't going to end well.

    For him or for us?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    He'll be fine. Worst case scenario there's more book deals and newspaper columns in it for him.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "This really isn't going to end well"

    You might say so.

    Leadsom Environment Secretary.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    Grayling Transport

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "

    During his stint as Ministry of Justice, Grayling promised justice for victims of poor driving, suggesting if a banned driver goes on to cause death or serious injury they will automatically face jail time of 10 and four years, respectively.

    At the time he said: “I want to make our roads safer and ensure people who cause harm face tough penalties.

    "

    https://cyclingindustry.news/chris-grayling-appointed-transport-secretary-for-uk

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    TM here tomorrow

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. wee folding bike
    Member

    Ms Leadsom, who nobody had heard of until she recently fell on her sword, has Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Is there a conflict of interest there?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. Morningsider
    Member

    Clearly the most right wing government Britain has had in modern times. No amount of "I feel your pain" waffle can disguise the direction of travel here. With Liam Fox as International Trade and Jeremy Hunt as Health (English) it would seem the privatisation of the English NHS is a real possibility. Trident renewal seems a done deal - as it is seen as the only way to "reassure" the USA we are still serious about defence. Who knows what will happen to social security - it can't be good, whatever it is.

    I can only imagine the FO has gone into some kind of meltdown, probably brushing of the Duke of Edinburgh diplomatic emergency plans as we speak.

    As for cycling - I reckon its a political goner at a national level in England. I just can't see this bunch of free market zealots having any interest in it at all.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Department for Energy and Climate Change replaced by Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

    Presumably this curve will now flatten off and decline as the problem has been solved.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Oliver Letwin on Radio 4 this morning pointing out that we will need to recruit or train our own European trade negotiators as EU membership meant we didn't need them. Doesn't that mean that other EU members won't have them either?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Cyclingmollie

    The UK will need to recruit immigrants for these posts. The EU negotiates as a bloc, not as individual nations. It's illegal for a member state to cut a national deal in place of an EU one.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I'm assuming the new transport strategy can be fitted on 1 side of paper and is just the 4 words "HS2 at Any Cost".

    Not sure if that's better or worse than the Scottish "dual it, then dual it some more" strategy.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @Iwrats Presumably we can set up a deal with the EU prior to leaving. I don't understand why our regular trade negotiators can't handle that.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @cyclingmollie it would be in breach of EU law, which we are bound by until we leave, to negotiate any trade deals outwith of the EU.

    Our current EU trade deals apply until we leave. After that we have to negotiate all new ones as the UK.

    We can't legally negotiate any new ones until after we leave, even if the UK chose to try and negotiate anyway, it's unfeasible that the other parties would allow us to as this might jeopardise their EU relationship. And anyway these things generally take 5-10 years to thrash out and we have only 2 from point that Article 50 is triggered.

    So as far as trade deals go, the Brexit door leads directly to a vacuum.

    The UK doesn't have the necessary number of negotiators for the frenzy that's coming. We haven't needed them as we've been in the EU, and even if we did have some, everything is starting from scratch effectively and the other parties know this and therefore hold all the good bargaining chips. The UK is in a catastrophically weak position, our market is too small compared to the EU single market to really worthy of preferential deals from the big partners like the US, Japan, China, India and what do we have to offer in return?.

    We are a net importer of nearly everything that modern life requires. If we push up tariffs to protect UK suppliers, it pushes up the cost of living and p****s off much bigger economic powers. If we pull them down to reduce the cost of living the exchequer loses out, UK suppliers are further squeezed but at least big TVs are cheaper.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    @kaputnik Thank you for the explanation. Now I see the situation I am even more pissed off. Truly ignorance is bliss.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Did I say bliss? I've not felt that in relation to world events for a long time - except for Iceland beating England.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @CM I really wish I was making some of this stuff up. But if the learned brains that input to the below story know their stuff (and we have to assume they do) then I'm probably putting a positive gloss on it.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07/14/everything-you-need-to-know-about-theresa-may-s-brexit

    "This article is based on conversations with Dr. Holger P. Hestermeyer, Shell reader in International Dispute Resolution at the Dickson Poon School of Law, Professor Anand Menon, director of UK in a Changing Europe and professor of European Politics and Foreign Affairs at Kings College London, and Dr James Strong, fellow in Foreign Policy Analysis and International Relations at the London School of Economics and Political Science."

    The article joking claims it will tell you in 5 mins, it's more like 10, but I recommend ploughing through it.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. Morningsider
    Member

    The head of the World Trade Organisation, who I assume knows what he is talking about, provides a good overview of this topic in the following FT article:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/745d0ea2-222d-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d.html#axzz4ETKHf3Gt

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Oh my god Kappers. That's so depressing. The "kick it into the long grass" option is the only glimmer of hope to be gleaned from the article. @Morningsider the FT one seems to be behind a paywall.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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