@steveo
The Yanks manage it, fetishise it even. Even Canada has almost managed it, bar a bit of a stand-off with Quebec.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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The Yanks manage it, fetishise it even. Even Canada has almost managed it, bar a bit of a stand-off with Quebec.
The yanks are held in a timewarp with it and are still beholden to empty rhetoric, gun control being the obvious comparison, but look at the Trump campaign.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The referendum now seems to be chewing up the Scottish parts of the Labour and LibDem parties;
Mr Rennie would be in a bit of an awkward spot were his erstwhile leader Mr Clegg's words to be put to him. Who knows what Ms Dugdale makes of Mr Corbyn's thoughts.
I wonder if there's a great re-alignment coming amongst the centre-right parties in Scotland?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Shock poll for STV news says Ruth Davidson and T May are more popular than N Sturgeon. (!)
http://stv.tv/news/politics/1367060-poll-ruth-davidson-more-popular-with-scots-than-sturgeon/
In the perverse world of ugly post Brexit politics the story below may have boosted her popularity (Surely not though as we are all still 'EU citizens'-?).
http://www.thenational.scot/news/sturgeon-calls-for-davidson-apology-over-offensive-eu-comments.22266
The Tory press office responded with a statement which said: “Some people may find it bizarre that an EU citizen has an interest in a planning application in Banchory. However, it is easily explained when people understand that the planning consultant in question is an SNP appointee to the Scottish Government housing committee and Christian Allard was a former SNP MSP.”Posted 8 years ago # -
"Ruth Davidson and T May are more popular than N Sturgeon"
Simplistic analysis by media (and poll co).
It's difference between 'likes' and 'dislikes' - RD & TM haven't done enough to get many disapprovals!
Posted 8 years ago # -
That's what I thought.
T May very unlikely to say anything directly to or about Scotland. Even less likely to visit as she's 'been there and done that'. Both of these will give her a 'not proven' verdict to some.
I note that the BBC have been given a new brief by the draft Royal Charter Review.
"required the BBC to have a UK-wide approach and support and promote the United Kingdom". Lesley Riddoch reckons this is in conflict to the Scottish Six idea. BBC Scotland say they will try and make some more pilots. Seems to be not that great an urgency (surprise, surprise).Posted 8 years ago # -
"Ruth Davidson and T May are more popular than N Sturgeon"
The poll question was "“Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the way X is doing his/her job as leader of the Y Party?”
How would I answer that for Ms Davidson? I believe the Conservative & Unionist party is a direct threat to our well-being. I want its leader to lead it boldly into a position where it is widely seen as both evil and risible. Has Ms Davidson done that...?
Posted 8 years ago # -
IWRATS - well, you know...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14460205.Election_Unspun/
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Morningsider
Not with you. What party does the buffalo lead?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we not all still EU citizens at until Brexit?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@sallyhinch
Interestingly there is no legal mechanism for the withdrawal of EU citizenship once acquired/granted. Why would there be?
It's quite possible that we/they shall remain EU citizens until death.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@sallyhinch I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as EU citizenship. We are citizens of the UK and while the UK is still in the EU, we have the rights that come with that. I'm equally sure that when/if Brexit actually happens we will lose those rights.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ih
It certainly does exist, established by the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union;
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12012E/TXT
Article 20
(ex Article 17 TEC)
1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I suppose my point was, calling someone an EU citizen shouldn't technically imply that they are in some way furriners (but clearly has come to mean that already).
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
EDINBURGH’S long-awaited multi-billion pound City Deal has been delayed by Brexit, council bosses admitted.
Council leader Andrew Burns said the EU referendum and the resulting shake-up of the UK Government had caused a “slight elongation” of the plans.
He said the deal to inject £2 billion of public money into the Capital would now be finalised as part of the budget in March next year – with a basic outline agreed by the Autumn Statement in November.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
@sallyhinch
I suspect it now means something worse; Furriner who doesn't even have a visa.
Posted 8 years ago # -
IWRATS Thanks for that, I stand thoroughly corrected.
It seems though from the clause you quoted that EU citizenship requires nationality of a member state. If the UK ceases being a member state, wouldn't that mean that nationals of the UK also cease beings EU citizens?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ih
Who knows? Depends on interpretation and possible further treaty clarification as part of the Article 50 process.
Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union.Does that 'shall' imply a period of time limited by the lifetime of the citizen, the term of their national citizenship, the period of membership of the EU by their national state? Who knows? There certainly is no equivalent of Article 50 specifying how anyone can lose their European citizenship once acquired.
Just another bullet point on the Brexit agenda.
Posted 8 years ago # -
We all voted in June on the clear understanding that the government would use royal prerogative to trigger Article 50. Apparently.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm sure it's interesting IWRATS. Could you give us the short version of it?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Eh, yes. HMG claim there's no further need for parliament to be involved before making exit from the EU irrevocable.
The two main bases for this claim seem to be;
1) That parliament passed the EU Referendum Act without a provision stipulating further Acts, and
2) Voters were clear when voting that exiting the EU would be automatic and not involve parliamant when voting.
I'm sceptical of both claims in that MPs probably didn't read the Act and probably expected a Remain vote and voters....well I keep up with these things and I don't know what the limits to royal prerogative are. I assumed that the referendum was parliament seeking our views on an advisory basis.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Explains the issue in slightly more familiar language which I confess I needed. Also explains that Government wanted to keep secret its arguments for being able to use the royal prerogative when invoking Article 50.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Greg Moodie has plenty of material for a new book of cartoons thanks to recent events. Kez and Jez are favourite characters along with 'political dinosaur' Gordzilla. Crowdfunding required to produce this book. Word Power will stock when it comes out no doubt.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/the-nationals-cartoonist-greg-moodie-bids-to-crowdfund-a-book-based-on-his-weekly-moodievision-strip.22958Posted 8 years ago # -
Looks like we'll all need to hold onto our hatches and batten down our hats. This is not going to go well.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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@IWRATS To be fair, Alex Massie, like a lot of Conservatives, has been consistent in his view that Brexit is folly.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@PS True. However their power has always been cohesion and internal loyalty. I guess E*rope is the one issue that over-rides that?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I guess E*rope is the one issue that over-rides that?
Long may it continue to do so...
Is Massie actually a Conservative or just conservative?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I would guess he is conservative
Posted 8 years ago # -
Alistair Coleman @alistaircoleman
Day Two of the emergency jam airlift to France. Lancaster bombers drop catering tins of strawberry over Paris, citizens weep with joy.
Posted 8 years ago #
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