The Celtic Fringe is beginning to bristle...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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One day we'll look back on this charade...
T May will adopt her regal approach and bequeath benefits to 'needy' pro Tory interests. These will be across 'our nation' (not to be confused with Scotland).So a simple bit of helping out whisky distillers, airlines, banks and anyone else that might waver in the belief that a divided party with only one Westminster seat has any right to deny our vote. As Lesley Riddoch said last night on STV 'tell me one policy that T May has promoted that got majority support in Scotland' (paraphrased).
Business may speak loudly - but once exceptions are made to smooth one industry others will start legal action.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've tended to keep quiet about my indyref feelings - I differ from some close friends and family (respectfully - it's all been very civilised since what we disagree on is how best to secure a more equal, sustainable future rather than if that's desirable) but I'm now looking for a mast, hammer and nails: colours for the attachment to. Some No voting friends have already said they're now thinking seriously about voting Yes in an indyref2. Persuasive yes conversations shall be had...
That said my mood isn't positive - more rage and despair. (More widely focused than at Brexit, mind!)
Posted 7 years ago # -
@unhurt I'm one of the increasingly few people who, when asked what nationality I am, replies "British".
I have never voted SNP. I voted No in indyref for a number of reasons, including economics and the sheer bloody difficulty of unravelling the legal and economic structures of the UK. But many of those arguments have gone by the board now as the UK's government sets the same course on a larger, and riskier, scale.
Throw in the opportunity to cause some revenge angst and anguish for an older generation and Little Englanders who voted Leave for a phantom vision of Britain unchained and I can certainly see myself voting yes in indyref2.
Independence still needs answers to the questions of currency and the fact that England is by far Scotland's largest trading partner, but as all the pieces are getting thrown up in the air as a result of Brexit anyway, I reckon it might just be easier to sort those in the ensuing chaos.
Posted 7 years ago # -
An old friend from the university Liked a Ruth Davidson post on Facebook this morning. I know he is very, unshakeably, pro Union. We joke about that one and have done for years. I find the Ruth Davidson Like quite hard to understand because, outwith the Union, he shares nothing in common with her party and much, much more with the SNP.
We'll still be fine. I'll make fun of his Dr Who obsession and be envious of his three dogs.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Brexit seems to have driven the British governing class into some sort of manic, babbling reverie. A 'united' kingdom with a hard customs border across its own territory? Have a drink of water, two days sleep and then get psychiatric help, please.
Posted 7 years ago # -
They really are determined to proceed with Brexit, by whatever means necessary. The consequences for ordinary people could be horrendous.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"The consequences for ordinary people could be horrendous."
'We' don't know.
The problem is that neither does/can May and Co.
People voted Brexit for many reasons. The concentration on the 'left behind'/'hard done by' is touching, but the idea that TMay is willing/able to 'put things right' is beyond irony.
The same is happening in America.
That fact that one Gov is looking forward to 'outward looking world trade' and the other wants walls and barriers is just comical (or perhaps deeply worrying).
Posted 7 years ago # -
This is next plan -
"
The Green Paper will set out ten strategic pillars to underpin a new government approach to industry, including “Investing in science, research and innovation”, “upgrading infrastructure” and “delivering affordable energy and clean growth”.
"
No doubt it will get more favourable coverage than anything similar about Scotland.
Whether it will find favour with all sections of the Conservative Party or make much difference before Brexit happens, remains to be seen.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Posted 7 years ago #
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'The devolved
legislatures do not have a veto on the UK’s decision to withdraw from the EU'Back in 2014 I used to use Jim Sillars' line on waverers and ask them to consider that when they stood pencil in hand over the ballot paper they were, in that instant, sovereign. They had the choice of handing that sovereignty back to London or keeping hold of it here. It will be to my eternal regret that I did not make that argument with greater force.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Call me ‘remoaner-in-chief’, but I won’t be voting to trigger article 50
Owen Smith
Whatever the impact on my career I cannot wave through a course of action I believe will make people poorer and politics meaner. Labour must take a stand
"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/24/remoaner-article-50-brexit-labour
Posted 7 years ago # -
What would Burns have made of Brexit?
A sense of injustice at the hands of Hanoverian rulers
encouraged him to write:“The injured Stuart line is gone,
A race outlandish fills the throne;
An idiot race, to honour lost;
Know them best despise them most."This was scratched on a howff window (but not the Globe in Dumfries). He tried to delete by smashing the glass afterwards as such sentiments could result in a one-way trip to Australia.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Burns also wrote Ye Jacobites By Name.
You can't get a consistent political stance from Burns.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Rosie - not unlike most politicians :-)
'Ye Jacobites' original version was written as a commission I reckon. Full of anti-Catholic retoric with claims of brutality as the rising went all the way south (and north again).
According to Wiki he re-wrote it to be a bit more anti-war and less anti-Catholic. That's the one sung now.
Billy Bragg was inspired to do an anti-Thatcher version in a similar vein.
Posted 7 years ago # -
That's the full plan for Global Britain published;
Posted 7 years ago # -
You can't get a consistent political stance from Burns.
As LaidBack points out, some of his later works when he knew he was dying and tried to provide for the multitude of bairns he sired were done to commission. In particular the otherwise vexing 'Does Haughty Gaul Invasion Threat?'.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.
Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—"T May will like the sound of that. Suitably Elizabethan to reflect '1000 years of unbroken British History' ©BBC
Posted 7 years ago # -
LaidBack - every UK Act starts with that preamble.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I know that but it seems particularly appropriate this time!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Interesting letter in The National today.
"... Indeed the very concept of a British Court is a very new concept. In 1707 when the Scots and English Parliaments merged to form the British Parliament, Scots law and English Law remained separate and have remained so ever since, so the idea of a British court is itself a new idea.
The Scottish Parliament was adjourned in 1707 but was re-established in 1999 and has represented the democratic voice of the Scottish People since then.
The Supreme Court has recognised the right of the English People to have the sovereign right through their Parliament over the Crown on constitutional matters. However that court does not recognise the Scottish Parliament, or the Scottish people’s sovereign rights.
The Scottish Parliament must make it clear, beyond any ambiguity, that this court has no place in Scotland’s constitution. The Treaty of Union with England did not pass over our legal system to the English or British parliament, so this court has no constitutional status in Scotland. If they do not recognise our people, our Parliament or our sovereignty, then we should make it clear that we do not recognise them as having any authority in Scotland.
Andy Anderson Dunoon, Argyll "
Posted 7 years ago # -
Is that not where the Glasgow Christian sext GIRFEC objectors went to try to scupper Named Perspn?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Gembo - might be.
All I know is that the idea of 'the Scottish people’s sovereign rights' comes up every so often.
Scottish Income tax codes geographically identify Scotland as a country within the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/scottish-rate-income-tax/how-it-worksIf T May + Co can set this up then you'd think we could get an EU settlement that would please the majority.
I know one view is that the 2 million voters who voted for Scotland to stay in UK are happy to come out the EU now.
As the EU was played as an enlarged version of the UK during IndyRef 1 then that vote is suspect now.
'Better together' in the UK and by extension EU was the mantra in 2014 with the threat of Scotland being thrown out of EU repeated many times.Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Yet more Irish thoughtfulness;
Posted 7 years ago # -
Rt Hon Dame Margaret Beckett MP: "I will vote for the Brexit Bill though I fear the consequences will be catastrophic"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Rt Hon Gobbles McTurkey MP "I will vote for the Christmas Bill though I fear the consequences will be catastrophic".
Saw it neatly summed up that Labour are dangerously close to appealing to neither the 48% or the 52%. Maybe they hope to appeal to the 28% of people who didn't vote. But Westminster majorities that builds not.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Keir Starmer's Holborn and St Pancras constituency voted 75% Remain in the referendum and yet he is going to vote for the Brexit Bill. I'm not entirely sure how this represents representative democracy...
Posted 7 years ago #
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