Or a big cow.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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or a soap box
Posted 7 years ago # -
Ohhhh, I didn't see that one.
I remember John Major had one of those in '92. I just finished Ken Clarke's autobiography and the soap box got a mention.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'd like to thank the Dutch people for being sensible.
The threat of Geert Wilders has been restrained. Hopefully this will galvanise progressive ideas south of the border.
Posted 7 years ago # -
From the National:
"SCOTLAND'S Brexit minister has criticised the UK Government after claiming Tory politicians in London "forgot" to inform Scotland of the date when Article 50 will be triggered.
Mike Russell said he only found out the process would formally get under way on March 29 when it was reported by the BBC.
Russell, the minister for UK negotiations on Scotland's place in Europe, has been involved in discussions between London and Edinburgh over the Article 50 process as a member of the Joint Ministerial Committee (EU Negotiations)."
Today's cartoon sums up 'Playing Politics' nicely.
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/15167252.Playing_Politics_by_Greg_Moodie/Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm currently reading "All Out War" by Tim Shipman. It's an insider account of the personalities involved in the referendum campaign. So far I've come to the conclusion that they are all ***** and all deserve to lose. A recurring quote from Tory Remain and Leave MPs is how their priority was to preserve the party, regardless of the end result.
No-one comes out well.
Posted 7 years ago # -
A recurring quote from Tory Remain and Leave MPs is how their priority was to preserve the party, regardless of the end result.
Looks like they hit that one right out of the park, TBH. :-(
Posted 7 years ago # -
So far I've come to the conclusion that they are all ***** and all deserve to lose.
The last few years have seen me become politically active for the first time. I now see it as normal to be involved in campaigns. I thought about participating in last summer's one, but.....I too came to that conclusion. A plague on both their houses.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Lesley Riddoch visited the next island over recently...
Sitting beside me on the Question Time-style panel was the former Northern Ireland secretary and current Tory MP Owen Paterson who assured the audience in the BBC’s Spotlight TV programme there would be no problems whatsoever with an internal Irish border post Brexit. Just none.
“To have a hard border would be an absolute nonsense,” he said.
“Having different tariffs and tax regimes north and south of the border need not create problems,” he said. “Look at Canada and America, Russia and Finland. If they can harmonise arrangements, the two parts of Ireland certainly can.”
Why?
“Because there is such huge trade involved, there will be a settlement.”
From The National (referred to as 'a paper' on the BBC).Posted 7 years ago # -
I think Owen Paterson is quite wrong. Should Northern Ireland leave the EU there will need to be customs posts on the Irish side of the border for reasons of VAT fraud if nothing else. Also, Article 24 of GATT would require it.
Technically there should already be customs posts between the Republic and NI for livestock movement reasons. The EU seem to be generous in overlooking this point.
Posted 7 years ago # -
if Northern Ireland leave the EU there will need to be customs posts on the Irish side of the border for reasons of VAT fraud if nothing else.
Lots of small roads cross that border. How does Norway handle border with Sweden I wonder?
The unique thing is that we are all on islands here so all goods have to come in and out through a port. Channel Islands are nominally British but never joined the EU.
I do take point about VAT - it's complex but we've been making it work for years. Airlines and European distribution companies will be the first to fight anything that makes red tape. They're lobbying right now I'm sure.Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Theresa May will head north of the border this week and attempt to defuse the SNP’s plan for a second referendum by focusing on a Brexit deal that delivers for Scotland.
With Nicola Sturgeon warning of hard Brexit, the Prime Minister will attempt to find common ground with the Scottish Government on access to the single market and protecting the rights of EU nationals.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
This is going to go badly. Very badly.
Posted 7 years ago # -
It did.
T May did nothing other than her speaking clock routine.
Meanwhile N Ireland has a crises due to a lack of mediation.
Her second (or third) visit here?. She controlled agenda with no chance of meeting the famed silent majority.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've not seen a statement of what they said but I wondered if Mrs May could have given a little ground and spiked Ms Sturgeon's guns.It doesn't look like she did.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Here's a view from Mike Small. Video clip included. I'm sure other media feel T May's sacred mission to create a one size fits all Union will be supported. If we are such 'people of one mind' how come the majority was so slim in England? Why do Scotland and N Ireland diverge from this slim majority etc. A real leader would acknowledge that. Instead she hid from the media and public, meeting NS in a budget hotel room.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Why in Glasgow? Will Mr Trump make a visit to see Mrs May in Birmingham?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Message from May was:
- we are the real democratically elected UK government and you will meet us where we choose
- Scotland is not a state so no need for trappings
- North Britain is not even a coherent 'community or business interest' and should not be pandered.Patrick Harvie asks why everyone except the people of Scotland have a voice. Do the 'people of Scotland' actually exist in TM's one nation union? She would like people to forget about their old feelings of identity and get on with the new Plan for Britain.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yesterday was one of the oddest days yet in Scottish politics.
My interpretation is that Ms May has reached her position without ever having to lead from the front, unlike Blair and Cameron but just like Brown. She seems to be a very brittle Home Counties back room maneuverer who has now waded into a couple of countries she barely understands.
The DfID speech was in front of people who would have been punished for failing to applaud.
The meeting with the Police was mad. Either it was insubstantial or it was substantial. If substantial she must now take some responsibility for Police Scotland's failings. If insubstantial what on earth was it for? To indicate a willingness to meddle in non-reserved areas?
The failure to answer substantive questions - weak.
The hotel room meeting - to avoid being photographed being welcomed to Scotland by another powerful woman. Weak and mean.
I really do think Ms May will struggle to emerge from her time as PM with any credit from anyone.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
We will build a more united nation that our children and grandchildren are proud to call home.
The Government’s Plan for Britain seeks to:
• take big decisions when they’re the right decisions for Britain in the long-term – putting our national interest above any other consideration
• ensure these big decisions benefit the whole country, creating jobs and supporting cities, towns and communities right across the United Kingdom
• ensure the voices and interests of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are represented as we negotiate to leave the EU
• actively work to bring people and communities together by promoting policies that support integration and social cohesion
• promote the values of fairness, responsibility and citizenship to bring people together and build a stronger, fairer Britain.
"
https://www.planforbritain.gov.uk/a-united-nation
Even if you don't think that's embarrassing, bit lightweight/unambitious for a PLAN.
Remarkably similar to this -
"
As your prime minister my ambition will be to guide our country to the sunlit uplands – a future for our children and grandchildren of aspiration, tolerance and hope.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Even at only five bullet points, I can see a few internal contradictions within that "Plan for Britain"...
Posted 7 years ago # -
With regard to yesterday this IS what TMay believes -
"
ensure the voices and interests of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are represented as we negotiate to leave the EU
"
She quite clearly thinks "voices and interests" don't include (or at least not represented by) SP/SG/SNP.
On one level that is perfectly reasonable/understandable - but also displays contempt/disinterest when it comes to any notion of 'democracy'.
Which for someone who wasn't elected as PM (even by her own party) is perhaps slightly worrying(?)
Posted 7 years ago # -
Britain has never had to 'plan for Britain' before. It's actually a first. They've planned for empire, they've planned to win wars, they've planned for a commonwealth, they've planned for integration with Europe. They've never, to my knowledge, planned to make the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland itself better without reference to some other friendly or unfriendly, subservient or dominant group.
The only counter-example I can think of was the government run by Clement Atlee whose goal - recovery from the Great Depression and WWII - was quite clear.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Britain has never had to 'plan for Britain' before"
You saying this is an aberration or progress?
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm in favour of plans, but they are pointless unless the goal of the plan is defined first.
What is the goal of this plan? What measure could be used to demonstrate that it has or hasn't succeeded? How can I support it or not if I don't know what goal it is intended to achieve?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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On the Brexit letter day, just a reminder of what's already happened -
http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/BRITAIN-EU/010040DB0TQ/index.html
Posted 7 years ago # -
EDIT: Wrong thread
Posted 7 years ago # -
Time for a bit of REM...
Every body: Its the end of world as we know it...
Posted 7 years ago # -
I took French at O Grade because we were joining the EEC. Now what am I going to do with it?
Posted 7 years ago #
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