CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Do we need an EU referendum thread?

(1192 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from I were right about that saddle

  1. LaidBack
    Member

    @Iwrats My worry is that the people making the plan are reckless, unintelligent, uninformed and quite possibly a bit mad. Their actions will have consequences that they (and we) are quite unable to envision.
    Totally agree. Their pleas to have a government of national unity ring hollow when they have disrupted the lives of so many. They seem to relish conflict and will ramp up things to obscure their lack of a plan. Ethnic hatred is useful for some and beats thinking. As a believer in running my own business and country I am shocked how much the vote has changed the mood down south. I look to our country with a bright future welcoming people in. May's attack on the EU before negotiations begin set a low and mean spirited tone. Of course for those with money the resulting chaos of her actions is not a threat. They're abroad for large parts of the year and uncertainty can create opportunity (for them).

    Posted 6 months ago #
  2. LaidBack
    Member

    Many European cities celebrated Europe Day today.

    #europeday2017 #EuropeDay is popular in Edinburgh by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr

    Sure the media here will have lots of positive stories of the bonds between our various countries. (not)
    Also hear that Scot Gov were meeting Angus soft fruit growers worried about how they can still have access to labour and markets. Someone else in fishing industry has also made the observation that the change to fishing is 'not all the EU's fault'. Meanwhile Scot Gov were in Ireland too.
    T May and her supporters will be very pleased I'm sure ;-)

    Posted 6 months ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  4. LaidBack
    Member

    When all else fails try poetry.
    Some lines made me laugh.
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/05/15/35-years/

    Meant to put in Indyref thread. Shows the state of things!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland leaves the European Union and all its associated bodies at midnight on the 29th of March 2019.

    Presumably there's a sense of urgency in London?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Nicola Sturgeon will call for a cross-party “four nation” approach to the Brexit negotiations as she joins SNP MPs at Westminster later today.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-to-seek-four-nation-approach-to-brexit-1-4473050

    Do we need a Brexit thread??

    Posted 5 months ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    A 'four nation' approach is of course what is required if it's physically possible, but the UK of GB & NI's exit from the EU is primarily driven by the internal politics of the Conservative party, not national unity.

    What position could satisfy all of; the border counties of Northern Ireland, Edinburgh, Grimsby, Guildford, Snowdonia and Shoreditch and also be something none of the EU27 would veto?

    Clever, principled people with the backing of the whole of the four nations would struggle to achieve this. A group of dim, slippery zealots with their turncoats on shoogly pegs may well not even try.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "

    1 bike, 4 countries, and the 100 great geosites of the U.K. Follow a hydrogeologist's adventure on 2 wheels, visiting the 100 great geosites (and more)!

    "

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GreatGeology

    Posted 5 months ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    In his interviews this morning Michael Gove, the new environment secretary and one of the leaders of the Vote Leave campaign, stressed the importance of achieving a consensus on Brexit

    Ahhh! Woooh! What's happening? Who am I? Why am I here? What's my purpose in life? What do I mean by who am I? Okay okay, calm down calm down get a grip now. Ooh, this is an interesting sensation. What is it? Its a sort of tingling in my... well I suppose I better start finding names for things. Lets call it a... tail! Yeah! Tail! And hey, what's this roaring sound, whooshing past what I'm suddenly gonna call my head? Wind! Is that a good name? It'll do. Yeah, this is really exciting. I'm dizzy with anticipation! Or is it the wind? There's an awful lot of that now isn't it? And what's this thing coming toward me very fast? So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like 'Ow', 'Ownge', 'Round', 'Ground'! That's it! Ground! Ha! I wonder if it'll be friends with me? Hello, Ground!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  10. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    In the centre lay the exploded carcass of a lonely sperm whale that hadn’t lived long enough to be disappointed with its lot.

    Typical government minister then.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    We do need to consult The Book (HItchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy) in these troubled times)

    Posted 5 months ago #
  12. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  13. sallyhinch
    Member

    This is about Donald Trump but it made me wonder. Never underestimate the power of stupid https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/16/oliver-burkeman-laws-of-stupidity-donald-trump

    Perhaps it's all a cunning plan after all?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

    Frank Zappa

    Posted 5 months ago #
  15. Iain McR
    Member

    a tremendous summary from 'the other side', if you speak German or want to Google translate.

    http://mobile2.derbund.ch/articles/59442e3cab5c3744ba000001

    Posted 5 months ago #
  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    English version of Iain McR's post now doing the rounds;

    http://www.europeanscom.eu/the-laughing-stock-of-europe/

    Posted 5 months ago #
  17. LivD
    Member

    Queen's hat making a statement too in her speech...
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/fionarutherford/if-the-hat-fits

    Posted 5 months ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Nobody knows what to make of this any more, do they? The whole thing is now an irreparable mess.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Nous devons commencer à préparer nos entreprises, les syndicats, la société civile, aux conséquences du choix britannique.

    The disconnect between British and European cultures couldn't be clearer. Unions and civil society to be involved in limiting the damage that will be done by the choices the British have made. In the UK of GB&NI? Not so much.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  21. chdot
    Admin

    So, how bad could it be?

    From link

    "

    The third humiliating outcome involves Britain realising that there is no good Brexit on offer and abandoning the whole idea and returning meekly to the EU fold. Even to secure agreement to this outcome from the EU27, Britain might have to give up its cherished budget rebate.

    Each of these results will cause dismay and anger in Britain. But there is an argument that a dose of national humiliation can be good for a country. The writer Ian Buruma argued recently that British and American politics have become vulnerable to nationalist self-harm because, after the second world war, “generation after generation grew up with . . . the feeling of being special”.

    "

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    But it's OK, Boris is on the case and being conciliatory -

    "

    Boris Johnson: EU can 'go whistle' over Brexit divorce bill

    "

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40571123

    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    So, how bad could it be?

    If the Article 50 letter should be revoked there will be molten fury in some parts and sacrificial victims will be required.

    I wouldn't want to be identifiably different in any way in the harder-pressed parts of England if that happens.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. ih
    Member

    " .. there will be molten fury in some parts.."

    Roughly 2% of older (more brexit leaning) people die every year to be replaced in the voting population at the younger end by approximately the same number. If the brexit process, with an inevitable transition period, lasts for the next 5 years, then that's a population turnover of about 10%. If only our politicians could organise themselves to mobilise that younger vote, I'm sure that Article 50 will be revoked during this time.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    "then that's a population turnover of about 10%."

    Good point.

    Problem/dilemma for CorbynLab - motivating the younger demographic but being resolutely sticking to 'Brexit is the will of the people'.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. ih
    Member

    I can't understand 'the will of the people' argument. I don't think that 'will' can be regarded as 'settled' in any description. My guess is that a referendum tomorrow would secure a respectable remain majority (anyone seen any polls?) and that will only get more respectable with time.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "If the Article 50 letter should be revoked there will be molten fury in some parts"

    Or perhaps 'in some parts of some parts'.

    There will always be those who care more about 'immigrants/ation' than any other aspect of Brexit. As there seems to very little realistic prospect of any significant reduction (apart from people deciding they no longer want to come...) they already have the molten fury or they are resigning themselves to further disappointment.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    "I can't understand 'the will of the people' argument."

    I'm sure you can! It's something of a recent notion though - or at least the idea that politicians pay much attention is!

    "I don't think that 'will' can be regarded as 'settled' in any description."

    True, but apparently the electorate has apparently had enough of referendums.

    "My guess is that a referendum tomorrow would secure a respectable remain majority"

    Very likely, though both 'sides' would have to have better positions than last time.

    We are where we are (but no-one has much idea where that is.)

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The demographic turnover argument rests on the principle that recruitment into the older cohorts doesn't also recruit into the pro-Brexit cohorts....

    Unless the power structures that led to the Brexit vote are changed there will just be another lunatic decision in due course. If you still have a bunch of toffs, professional politicians and maniacs in government with the Mail and Express barking in their ears like junkyard dogs we'll just get the same result. English nationalism isn't just going to go away, though it might get a bit nicer.

    But naturally I quite agree that 'the settled will of the people' is a thing that it takes more than one day to establish if it can in fact exist or be established at all.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A senior Conservative has called for a rethink of his own party's "calamitous" Brexit policy, warning a trade deal with Donald Trump's America would wipe out Scottish farmers.

    Former MEP Struan Stevenson raised the spectre of falling subsidies and collapsing land prices while imports of cheap low-quality hormone-treated beef and chlorine-washed chicken destroyed domestic production.

    "

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/15403946.Top_Scots_Tory_calls_for_an_end_to_calamitous_Brexit_as_Scottish_farmers_face_post_EU_wipe_out/

    Posted 4 months ago #

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