Ms Hoey's thoughts and words are so mad and dangerous that the Financial Times has responded.
https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-d370-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Posted 7 years ago #
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The Fintan O'Toole thing that FT piece suggests as further reading is good.
"It is thus quite a feat for the Brexiters to turn their most sympathetic ally into the scapegoat for their own most egregious failures. They’ve pulled it off by utilising their most remarkable skill: sheer incompetence. They have known since 29 April, when the European commission issued its negotiating guidelines, that credible proposals on the Irish border were a basic condition that had to be satisfied before trade talks could start. This could not have been more explicit.
Time after time, the lead EU negotiator, Michel Barnier, has made it clear that “the unique situation on the island of Ireland requires specific solutions”. But in any case, one would expect Britain to be just as insistent. It has grave responsibilities to its own citizens in Northern Ireland and to the Belfast agreement, by which it is legally and morally bound.
Yet the British have done essentially nothing."
Posted 7 years ago # -
Ian Dunt's article on Politics.co.uk skewers the ridiculousness of Hoey and co's position.
"Even in the context of Brexit, where lots of very silly ideas are treated as if they are credible, it is unspeakably foolish."
His book, "Brexit - What The Hell Happens Now?", is well worth a read for a very brisk briefing on the utter shambles that this all is.
Posted 7 years ago # -
This is not going to end well.
Posted 7 years ago # -
IWRATS, it's gonna be fine -
Posted 6 years ago # -
@chdot
Yes, I know Emmanuel. He is a lovely chap, and a transport cyclist.
EDIT: Ha, thought that was another article you'd posted. But Emmanuel is a lovely chap and a cyclist.
“I know Leave is Leave and now we work on that but it’s not a good thing for the UK nor for Europe nor for Scotland,” he declared.
Sailing very close to the protocol wind there.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The British proposal is understood to commit the government to work towards “avoiding regulatory divergence” in Ireland after Brexit even if the rest of the UK moves away from European rules. This would involve the government devolving a package of powers to Northern Ireland to enable customs convergence with the Irish Republic on areas such as agriculture and energy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/62b63222-d551-11e7-939b-cd6b722b9d7e
If Scottish beef, salmon and whisky lose their Geographical Indications and Appellations of Origin and so on but Northern Irish farmers continue under various EU protections, and maybe even under the CAP....will Scots, farmers and indeed all of us, tolerate this?
Posted 6 years ago # -
No.
(Though CAP, gyagh.)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Interesting factoid - in 2016 average direct CAP payments made up 169% of average farm business income in Northern Ireland. The only type of farm that actually made any money (over and above subsidy) were pig farms.
A couple of post-Brext free trade agreements with big agricultural producers would wipe out all farming in NI and probably Scotland as well.
Details (not that they count these days): http://www.assemblyresearchmatters.org/2017/03/22/now-direct-support-farmers-northern-ireland-post-brexit/
Posted 6 years ago # -
A couple of post-Brext free trade agreements with big agricultural producers would wipe out all farming in NI and probably Scotland as well.
And most farms in the north of England too...
Posted 6 years ago # -
will Scots, farmers and indeed all of us, tolerate this?
This is just the sort of thread that the SNP and co can give a good pull on and just what the UK government has been trying to avoid (those that would actually prefer keeping the UK together over leaving the EU, at least - in theory a large majority of Conservative MPs).
Posted 6 years ago # -
Reflecting on this for a bit of course the agricultural and energy powers can't actually be 'devolved' to Northern Ireland, not least because it doesn't currently have any prospect of having a government. 'Devolution' would leave the Assembly free to change agricultural regulations to be out of line with EU regulations. What will happen is that EU regulations will be imposed by Westminster and enforcement of those regulations will be 'devolved' to Stormont.
This is just cover for a new treaty obligation on the UK of GB&NI to leave NI in the customs union and single market. It still requires border checks between rUK and Northern Ireland and quite possibly free movement from the EU to NI. It's the thing the DUP have sworn to fight to the death and would mean the end of the UK of GB&NI as a unitary state.
Denying similar status to Scotland will be pyrotechnic.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Yipee-kiyay feathermuckers.
Posted 6 years ago # -
You should be watching C4 News (on +1).
Posted 6 years ago # -
Oh, Junior. Was really concerned for a minute.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Two falls, a knockout or a submission (probably the last two together) wins it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Link next to above -
Posted 6 years ago # -
OK, ref earlier -
I missed this one -
“
The SNP ended a brief pause in Scotland’s constitutional debate last night, pledging to hold a second independence referendum if the UK government pushes ahead with Brexit without consent from Holyrood.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
My bold -
“
BREXIT will take Scotland towards a “potential economic precipice”, according to leading historian, Professor Sir Tom Devine.
Speaking on The Alex Salmond Show on RT, Devine re-stated his belief that Brexit will not happen and said would put the question of Scottish independence back on the table.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Following on...
The National spoke with sources after Kirsty Hughes, director of the Scottish Centre on European Relations, tweeted: “Scottish govt will soon issue new version of their policy goal of staying in single market even while rUK goes for harder Brexit. Will raise border problems to England just as special status for NI would.” Hughes could not be contacted for further comment last night.
A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: “The Scottish Government has and will continue to publish papers on the impacts on Scotland of the UK leaving the EU. The Scottish Government believes we should remain in EU. If that is not possible, we must remain within the single market and customs union, which is clearly in the best interests of our economy and society.”
Sooner or later ScotGov will make contact with politicians who will listen. May is going to go away - dirty Damien should be going first though.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago # -
Show time. Mr Tusk just more or less instructed the UK to leave Northern Ireland in the EEA. If they agree to this like they've agreed to everything else then the DUP will turn on them.
I wonder if the SNP will offer some Westminster support in turn for Scotland getting the same deal? Price worth paying. Given that Ms Davidson is/was/will again be an ardent Remainer she might find it hard to resist. Scotland in the EEA would be independent in a decade. Imagine if London got EEA status too, leaving England-outwith-London as the equivalent of the USA's 'flyover' states.
Or perhaps a section of the Labour party will offer support in return for the whole UK remaining in the EEA? That would be like Suez on steroids, losing EU membership and still paying the bills. Utterly humiliating.
We'll find out soon I suppose.
Posted 6 years ago # -
There is no workable solution to the Irish border. Stay in the EEA (anyone who says this is impossible is talking rubbish - the rules are drawn up by European politicians and a way could be found) and you create a border between GB/NI and give the impression of a move to unification - unionists up in arms (literally).
Leave customs union/single market - there will be a border. Everyone up in arms.
Some sort of fudge - this collapses before the trade deal is agreed as it becomes clear it is really one of the two options above. Everyone up in arms.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I feel the people who voted for brexit deserve this but resent that I am also subject to it. Particularly all the people including the politicians who thought the vote would go the other way but wished to make a career (boJo) or lodge a protest (e.g. Cornwall)
Posted 6 years ago # -
For by Art is created that great LEVIATHAN called a COMMON-WEALTH, or STATE, which is but an Artificiall Man; though of greater stature and strength than the Naturall, for whose protection and defence it was intended; and in which, the Soveraignty is an Artificiall Soul, as giving life and motion to the whole body.
The dominant political idea during my whole adult life has been that the Art of keeping the Artificiall Man's limbs and organs plumbed up and inside his skin is a hindrance to my wellbeing.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“I feel the people who voted for brexit deserve this”
That depends...
As we all know, ‘people voted for B for ALL SORTS of reasons’.
Also no-one was given ‘the true facts’ / ‘enough info to make a decision on’.
I think one question (not time to ask it yet) will be “how many people want B on the terms of the ‘final’ deal?”
Apart from the ‘leave the EU at any cost’ types, I suspect there will be a significant majority for ‘can we stay in please?’
Posted 6 years ago # -
I think one question (not time to ask it yet) will be “how many people want B on the terms of the ‘final’ deal?”
Deals plural. There can be no return to the status quo ante. Those days are wholly lost and gone.
Posted 6 years ago #
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