“Good idea” 2.0
The EU could demand origins certificates from anything imported from Ireland and effectively move the hard border back to continent so when goods arrived from Ireland or people could go through EU border checks.
The cost of the people checks may be negligible but the Certificate of Origin cost may be more, of course the UK could agree to maintain EU CE criteria’s for a period of time (or indefinitely as would incur cost as well as losing conformity otherwise ) which would mean could phase in the origin checks.
The Irish prime minister has problems as does not really control the situation the EU may instruct Ireland to build a hard border and Irish prime minister would either have to install one and face the negativity from the public and “ groups” with associated security implication or not obey the EU and face complications which may include a hard border on continent (that option may cause less issues). I guess Irish prime minister wants uk to get a deal for Ireland as saves Ireland having to disobay EU, try and get deal or silly decided to build construct a border.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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How does this all feel to those on CCE who still feel British? I don't, I can't, this is impossible now. Surely?
Posted 6 years ago # -
the EU may instruct Ireland to build a hard border and Irish
As I understand it, if you have regulatory divergence you’ve got to have border controls, otherwise your standards are undermined and your consumers exposed. I think it might even be a WTO requirement. It’s not the EU instructing anything, it’s the UK forcing a change in behaviour.
Posted 6 years ago # -
If Ireland was not in the EU who would force a hard border what mechanism would the WTO deploy; what would happen etc? Does regularity divergence have to evolve a hard border? are there examples with regulatory divergence yet with no hard border control. The UK may have changed behaviour by leaving the EU granted, but the hard border as far as aware ( and I am not that aware) only likely to be pushed by the EU if at all.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“only likely to be pushed by the EU”
Not if they stick to the ‘we support Ireland’ line.
Business interests (on both sides) don’t want a border.
Those who don’t want ‘unlimited EU migration’ might call for a border. (Mexico won’t pay for it.)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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“
Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows
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“
With an eleven-point lead for Remain, when we include those who are leaning one way or the other, and excluding those who are undecided, BMG’s latest poll for the Independent shows the largest Remain lead in any of BMG’s monthly tracking polls conducted since the Referendum in June 2016.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
These people are still not engaging with reality;
Posted 6 years ago # -
[The British] have to realise there won’t be any cherry picking. We won’t mix up the various scenarios to create a specific one and accommodate their wishes, mixing, for instance, the advantages of the Norwegian model, member of the single market, with the simple requirements of the Canadian one. No way. They have to face the consequences of their own decision.
Michel Barnier there, stating the bleeding obvious. Question is now; just who is the 'they' who must face these consequences?
Posted 6 years ago # -
“who is the 'they' who must face these consequences?”
Sadly probably not those most responsible for the mess.
Message on R4 Today today (I think it was IDS, but zoning out is the normal defence/coping mechanism) -
‘Yes it might be harder to trade with Europe in the future, but businesses have to realise there is a bigger world/opportunity out there and get on with it’.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'll be having Christmas dinner with my out-laws in the heart of the EU this year. If any at table should imply even tangentially that I'm one of 'them' I'll be tranquiliser darted from a helicopter two hours later as I rampage across the countryside wearing nothing but a kilt and roaring the Declaration of Arbroath in a mixture of Doric and Gallo.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Tempted to get a message to one of them to suggest they make the implication for entertainment's sake... Good practice for French helicopter vets too!
Posted 6 years ago # -
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As we end another tumultuous year in our island history, Theresa May remains in Downing Street. She says she is “proving the doubters wrong” on Brexit, which is sadly not true.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
Settled will of the people -
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the percentage of people calling for him to be axed remaining at 52%.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
Les conclusions du Conseil qu’ils devraient adopter vendredi précisent que durant la transition, le Royaume-Uni devra conserver « tout l’acquis européen », c’est-à-dire respecter l’ensemble des règles du marché intérieur, dont la libre circulation des personnes, et continuer à contribuer au budget de l’UE. Mais devenu « un pays tiers », il n’aura plus voix au chapitre à Bruxelles : fini le commissaire, les eurodéputés, etc.
The conclusion of the Council, to be adopted on Friday, is that during the 'transition' the UK will have to retain the entire EU framework; the rules of the single market including free movement and contribution to the EU budget. But as a 'third country' it will no longer have a hand on the tiller in Brussels; no European Commissioners, no MEPs etc.
The British Bulldog will have kittens if the vote on the 23rd of June 2016 results in no change other than the UK losing what influence it had on the EU laws it is obliged to apply. I don't see any prospect of an end to the ugliness that's in store for us.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Interesting watching from the side, how people not so far along the change curve still feel so wronged.
Also interesting watching the UK Govt still believe it can get all of the cake etc, which it clearly can’t.
The vote happened, we lost, we’re not (and shouldn’t) having another vote. We need to finish the process quickly for everyone’s sanity, and then begin to think about where our place in the world is, what opportunities etc.
It’s going to be tough for 10 years or so, let’s just get on with it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I can't agree with the 'we voted, we lost, let's get on with it' opinion. If there were a referendum that voted to bring back capital punishment (which quite likely would be the result) I would never stop opposing it. Brexit was similarly wrong, not on ethical grounds, but on the grounds that it is worse for the country and its population than staying in. I've posted that in my opinion referendums are not the right vehicle for deciding such complex issues, which is why I don't want a second referendum, but to defeat Brexit through other means.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I agree with you, and not.
There will be people who voted against joining originally who will feel vindicated by this result.
Of the same accord we may feel that same vindication in 10 or 20 or 30 years (if the EU survives) if the question is asked of us again.
Democracy is a long process...
Posted 6 years ago # -
@ih - referendums are not the right vehicle for deciding such complex issues
Then that would be indyref2 cancelled - or we could just say a pro-indy majority is good enough at next election? Sure someone, somewhere blames Scotland for encouraging what in many ways was an English indy vote. ;-)
Everything, everywhere is very much 50/50 it seems - except on our media obsessed with what Ruth D is saying or doing next.
LibDem think we should re-run Brexit but not Indy.(!)
You will note that Catalonia is not being mentioned much. Vote is this Thursday and looking close.
Posted 6 years ago # -
It’s going to be tough for 10 years or so, let’s just get on with it.
I suppose I might share that opinion if not for three factors;
1) To me, other people made the decision on our behalf. If Scotland were to freely decide to join in the tough 10 years then I would be faced with a difficult choice right enough.
2) Almost nothing has yet been decided. The pain isn't inevitable at all, but time is running out.
3) There's the real prospect of violence in Northern Ireland if these people aren't very, very careful. If one has any fellow feeling for the people there then one should speak out.
We still have some agency in this matter. It isn't settled.
Posted 6 years ago # -
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Mr Gove and his ilk have eschewed any desire to allow for a modicum of flexibility in issues caused by Scottish geography and demography. They’ve failed to make any changes that could mitigate the margins but protect the core, as they seek fundamental change to allow for employers to impose longer hours and afford fewer protections. It’s a Dickensian model of employment that they hanker for, as they take Britain back to a Golden Age as they see it – or Hard Times as the rest of us do.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
If a thriving City matters to the UK (and not everyone thinks it does) it makes perfect sense for Bank of England and Treasury NOT to increase post-Brexit costs for EU banks based here - which is what they’ll announce later today.
From Robert Peston on Twitter
Posted 6 years ago # -
Surprising lack of reaction media-wise? Selling money of course is a special 'sacred' industry with 'productivity' levels that can never be matched by actually making things. Then again once we have one special opt out for EU businesses then expect more...?
@peston added on Twitter...
Bank of England confirms it will impose no material additional regulatory or capital costs on most EU banks operating in the EU (they can continue to operate as "branches" of their home country bank, in the jargon) (link: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/prudential-regulation/letter/2017/firms-preparations-for-uk-withdrawal-from-the-eu.pdf?la=en&hash=81F0EA1B1FC832D54B1497380249760FC3B34E69) bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/fi…
Posted 6 years ago # -
U.K.'s Secret Brexit Studies Reveal That Airbus Makes Planes
I might be past shock, anger and all the rest. Now I'm in the eating popcorn, drinking wine and laughing (just a wee bit hysterically) phase. (of denial?)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Yay, we're going to get blue passports after Brexit. That all makes it so worthwhile.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"U.K.'s Secret Brexit Studies Reveal That Airbus Makes Planes"
But who else and where (in future)?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boeing-in-talks-with-bombardier-rival-embraer-fv36r60dr
Might cause more problems in NI.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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