CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)

(1834 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from chdot

  1. LaidBack
    Member

    Tories don't want anything with the words Customs Union in it.

    Whatever happens one part of the UK will share a border with the EU in he shape of Ireland.
    May's failure to understand this will create chaos and threaten jobs and peace in NI.

    I note the London based MSM have agreed to forget about the Irish question for the moment.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    It's heartening to know that there is a huge amount of work being done to prepare for the regulatory framework after the UK of GB&NI's exit from the EU.

    Disheartening to realise that none of it is being done in the one place that you might think should be working hardest on this subject - London.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  4. paulmilne
    Member

    Land border between NI and Ireland will be the model for when Scotland gets fed up and goes Indy.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

  6. LaidBack
    Member

    It's all so predictable.
    Brexit is going to hurt us all but they'll be damned if we try and influence things to mitigate the slow motion disaster or if anyone from 'up here' gets proper access to the Brexit papers. (The ones that 'did and didn't exist' which seemed contemptuous in itself)
    They'll be in Edinburgh tomorrow with a UkGov official watching over our elected politicians.

    From BBC web...
    Green MSP Ross Greer, another member of the committee, said the move was "beyond insulting", particularly given MSPs were given "less than 24 hours' notice".

    He added: "Given the massive economic damage this analysis predicts, it's no surprise they're making it as difficult as possible for us to know any more than what has already been leaked."

    And Labour's Brexit spokesman Neil Findlay said the move was "an absolute nonsense" which "takes no consideration of MSPs who have constituencies far from Edinburgh".

    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. bax
    Member

    brexit is clearly a major disaster

    yet i can't help but notice how this will precipitate a true class struggle centre stage

    the fall-out will make the poll tax riots look like a kindergarten tête-à-tête

    bring it on, and f*ck the effete digital middle classes

    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    @bax San, are you not worried that you are also part of the effete digital middle classes?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  10. Morningsider
    Member

    IWRATS - doubtful you will find any blue touch paper in the shops after Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/08/no-deal-brexit-would-trigger-wave-of-red-tape-for-uk-drivers-and-hauliers

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. LaidBack
    Member

    ITV news looked at the reality of the softest of soft border between Norway and Sweden.
    It's one tenth of the traffic through Dover and needs 1500 people to man. Has giant x-ray for trucks.
    Nordics are used to moving about their zone so try to do things with least delay.
    Trucks though do stack up.
    Average truck clearance at Dover is 4 min per vehicle. Scandi one takes a lot longer and items not meeting rules are taken off and warehoused.
    They are using number plate recognition and 'trusted' companies like DSV are allowed through relatively quickly. Frictionless is a fiction.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

  13. chdot
    Admin

  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  15. unhurt
    Member

    Spock would have something unflattering to say about this illogical mess for sure.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

    Usually when they announce plans for ridiculously infeasible bridges / tunnels, it's to cover news they don't want you to hear about...

    Don't get played by them

    Posted 8 months ago #
  17. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Oh would some poo'er etc.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  18. LaidBack
    Member

    @iwrats - the Irish Times should now be included in any BBC look at the papers!

    "For all the fantasies of Nigel Farage and John Waters, Ireland will not follow the UK out of the European Union. It won’t do it for reasons that Farage and his new-found Irish acolytes fail to fathom but that Lemass fully understood. Brexit is an authentic English nationalist revolution, even if it depends on a ludicrous notion of the EU as England’s imperial oppressor. Irexit would not be an Irish nationalist revolution. On the contrary, it would be the end of Irish nationalism. The logic of Irexit would be for Ireland to rejoin the UK – and that’s why it hasn’t a hope."

    Posted 8 months ago #
  19. LaidBack
    Member

    Weekly update from our free press!

    Patrick Harvie writes about that report and why MSPs were only able to read even pages of the Brexit report in Scotland.

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/02/25/in-a-room-with-brexit-secrets/

    Posted 7 months ago #
  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Fintan O'Toole on perfidy.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    One of the arcane aspects of this mess is the consequences for Section 57 of the Scotland Act 1998. The whole 'returning EU powers' thing.

    Latest opinion on the subject given by 'Deputy PM' David Liddington is that the UK will assume the functions of the EU unless it decides different. This is in complete contradiction of the 1998 Act and indeed of the agricultural and fish-related symbols carved into St Andrew's House.

    There's great danger here of Scotland acquiescing and discovering that devolution has been largely abolished by stealth. Lots of 'come along now Jocks, you can trust us' stuff going on.

    In my (admitedly jaundiced) view of this scenario Carrie Fisher is Scotland, John Belushi is the UK;

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 7 months ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    Britain wants, and needs, transition arrangements. There is no sensible alternative. The UK crashing out of the EU with no cushion would mean chaos in trade, pandemonium on citizenship and perhaps even worse on the Irish border.

    The political and legal problem is that it seems there can be no transitional arrangements without a withdrawal agreement. Article 50 is silent on transition arrangements, and it appears that the EU only has the power to enter into such arrangements as part of the withdrawal agreement. If this is the position, then no withdrawal agreement, no transitional arrangements.

    FT via http://pic.twitter.com/9wc8eRZugg

    Posted 7 months ago #
  23. LaidBack
    Member

    ScotGov aren't hanging about - introduction of the Continuity Bill at Holyrood.

    Scottish Greens Co-convener Patrick Harvie MSP said:

    "The UK Government has treated Scotland with contempt throughout the Brexit crisis. David Mundell and Theresa May have missed too many chances to fix their dog’s breakfast of a Bill.

    "The Greens therefore welcome the introduction of a Continuity Bill to the Scottish Parliament, and we will examine it closely to ensure that it fully protects the devolution settlement and does whatever possible to prevent the worst effects of the Brexit crisis, a crisis Scotland did not vote for.

    "Even if the UK Government offers a last-minute compromise, the Continuity Bill must proceed and I’m pleased the minister confirmed to me that only a vote in Parliament could result in its withdrawal. The commitment to include the Charter of Fundamental Rights is also welcome."

    Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn's suggests he can invent a new kind of EU/UK Customs Union where UK will take interference from no one and reject freedom of movement. Not likely to be countenanced by EU as they have their indivisible freedoms.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_withdrawal_agreement.pdf

    Chapter III
    Common regulatory area
    Article 3
    Establishment of a common regulatory area

    A common regulatory area comprising the Union and the United Kingdom in respect of Northern Ireland is hereby stablished.

    The common regulatory area shall constitute an area without internal borders in which the free movement of goods is ensured and North-South cooperation protected in accordance with this Chapter.

    I'm guessing this is not going to go down well with certain sections of Northern Ireland's population. It's been drafted because the British won't make proposals for their own borders, which is odd given how prominently that subject has featured over the last couple of years.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    “which is odd“

    I know you don’t mean that!

    Posted 7 months ago #
  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    But it is odd.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    “But it is odd.”

    Only to a rational person, or a person who believes that politics should be rational.

    The UK Gov (and probably Lab too) have somehow got themselves into a position where they think it’s smart/sensible for them to be petulant when the EU isn’t coming up with solutions to the problem they created.

    Worse is the notion that they have to implement the will of the people - which is, apparently, a ‘nice Brexit’.

    (Almost) half the population isn’t getting what it wants the other half won’t get what they (individually and collectively) thought they were voting for.

    Certainly odd all round!

    Posted 7 months ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    A Brexit warning from one prime minister to another

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-43229962

    Posted 7 months ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Hope nobody's planning to use the Galileo GPS system for their cycling after next March.

    Article 7
    Access to network and information systems and data bases

    At the end of the transition period, the United Kingdom shall cease to be entitled to access any network, any information system, and any database established on the basis of Union law. The United Kingdom shall take appropriate measures to ensure that it does not access a network, information system, or database which it is no longer entitled to access.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Someone is having red, white and blue sabre-toothed kittens as I type.

    Article 4
    Free movement of goods

    2. Customs legislation as defined in point (2) of Article 5 of Regulation (EU) No 952/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council138 as well as other provisions of Union law providing for customs controls of specific goods or for specific purposes listed in Annex 3 to this Protocol shall
    apply to and in the United Kingdom in respect of Northern Ireland. The territory of Northern Ireland, excluding the territorial waters of the United Kingdom (the "territory of Northern Ireland"), shall be considered to be part of the customs territory of the Union.

    Posted 7 months ago #

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