"Brussels will rue the day it tried to divide the United Kingdom".
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
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Posted 6 years ago #
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... and people wonder why the Scottish Government is just getting on with its own post Brexit 'EU Continuity Bill'!
Brexit - a game of maximum obstinancy and delusion!
'You first agree to terms verbally. One player has 20 months to resist writing anything down - ably supported by a compliant media. The other player will try and write down exactly what can't be expressed in detail. The winner is the player that is best able to explain why this doesn't meet their own non expressed expectations.'Trading agreements are all a matter of trust. Future trading partners will have noted the UK Gov unreliability.
The idea that all these other countries in the world aren't dynamic players is laughable. While Boris and Liam blunder about the EU will lock in agreements to other countries. The UK is presenting itself as a trading block - it even talks about the 'UK internal market'. 'Do you want to join our UK single market? We have Scotland, England, Wales and NI (maybe)'. Delusional - big trading blocks win. Yes there are faults in the 'big is good' model. I would have more respect if they just said we're going to settle down and produce less and shrink 'the economy' with less waste. Less air travel should occur though if Brexit goes as expected!Finally - what about Gibralter? Many people in England are apparently comfortable with Scotland and NI not being under London admin. But Gibralter?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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R4 Today - Hessletine might vote Labour, ‘country above party’, if it stopped Brexit.
Cue lots of complaining about how he’s just doing it get attention on day of ‘major’ May speech.
Posted 6 years ago # -
These are the success criteria for the project apparently;
First, the agreement we reach with the EU must respect the result of the referendum. It was a vote to take control of our borders, laws and money. And a vote for wider change, so that no community in Britain would ever be left behind again. But it was not a vote for a distant relationship with our neighbours.
Second, the new agreement we reach with the EU must endure. After Brexit both the UK and the EU want to forge ahead with building a better future for our people, not find ourselves back at the negotiating table because things have broken down.
Third, it must protect people’s jobs and security. People in the UK voted for our country to have a new and different relationship with Europe, but while the means may change our shared goals surely have not – to work together to grow our economies and keep our people safe.
Fourth, it must be consistent with the kind of country we want to be as we leave: a modern, open, outward-looking, tolerant, European democracy. A nation of pioneers, innovators, explorers and creators. A country that celebrates our history and diversity, confident of our place in the world; that meets its obligations to our near neighbours and far off friends, and is proud to stand up for its values.
And fifth, in doing all of these things, it must strengthen our union of nations and our union of people.
It's not clear what happens if one or more of the criteria are not met. Perhaps the project manager will lose this year's bonus? Or be hung from a lamp post by a howling mob using electrical cables ripped from Number Ten?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Are they SMART?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Frankly target 4 looks like a nice to have, their definition of the target differs from the goal most brexiteers have in mind.
Target 5 looks like a day 2 patch...
Posted 6 years ago # -
Are they SMART?
What kind of amateur imbecile sets goals that aren't SMART? The problem seems to be who is accountable for these criteria. I get the impression that the British are trying to set the EU performance measures in some kind of through the looking glass inversion of reality.
Target 5 is one of those requirements lurking in Schedule 7 of Appendix 3 of the original spec no one read properly that get people fired.
Posted 6 years ago # -
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n05/william-davies/what-are-they-after
On the Tory Brexiteers: "We need to know not just what kind of past the Brexiteers imagine, but what kind of future they are after. One disconcerting possibility is that figures such as Fox and Rees-Mogg might be willing to believe the dismal economic forecasts, but look on them as an attraction."
Posted 6 years ago # -
Astonishingly vacuous objectives/success criteria. With one exception, all that could be met significantly better just by staying where we are.
On the face of it, the exception is in criterion 1 - control of borders. Notwithstanding that the UK suggestion for a frictionless border in Ireland completely blows "control of the border" away, it will also be the case that in practice there will be little difference in "control" when we leave - there will still be visa-free access for many countries (probably all the EU) and virtually no monitoring that people leave after their stated period. On the other hand, if the UK had genuinely wanted to monitor visitors stays, it could have done so within the rules, as several other EU countries do.
So, in summary, every criterion can better be achieved by remaining.
Posted 6 years ago # -
On the face of it, the exception is in criterion 1 - control of borders.
The UK has absolute control in respect of non-EU nationals. In respect of EU nationals it is allowed by EU law to remove non-UK EU nationals not having found work after three months, not having health insurance, having committed crimes and so on.
They don't do that because it needs a competent bureaucracy and they don't have or want one.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“They don't do that because it needs a competent bureaucracy and they don't have or want one.“
In short: the fuss about “immigration” could have been dealt with without a referendum.
Much less destructively too, probably.
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Posted 6 years ago #
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May's speech had a solemn and delusion tone. Was spoiled as should have come from Newcastle which would have shown her taking the fight to every corner of 'these islands' (*offer dies not apply to residents of Scotland and N. Ireland. Residents of Gibraltar to await call).
It pitched the UK as an equivalent to EU. 'They have EU regulations we may want to meet but we too will have pan-UK regs that they will have to meet in return. I take my place as the chosen leader of our union of nations. I know there will be setbacks and that I may not get my own way but neither will they."
Maybot message (just my musings - others may differ):
- She seems to agree that the UK is not actually a country (but a single market?). Neither is the EU. Both are trading blocks and both want to centralise power?
They have rules they would like us to meet. We too have rules that they will have to meet.
Of course EU are 27 and we are but four (nations) but unlike them we are British and therefore united in our resolve.With the 'Brexit game of obstinancy and delusion' it's important not too state too clearly how anything can be worked out (eg Irish Border).
Britain is the equal of the EU but it is their responsibility to answer all of her points. They have more resources, there are more of them! She will then decide if they understood what she was really thinking of. Repeat ad nauseum and hope that another EU event gets in the way.Jeremy Corbyn's answer was really just as vague
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
And while it said the prime minister had promised clarity on Britain’s hopes for a future trading relationship, it described the model she proposed as unworkable and “double cherry-picking”. It also claimed there had been “zero progress” when it came to ideas for customs cooperation.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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£435,000 of Saudi money filtered via DUP to promote Brexit. Because they had so much money it appears they campaigned around Waverley Station where an investigative journalist asked why the NI Leave campaign was operating in Scotland.
NI political parties aren't subject to same disclosure of funding (yes I know the DUP are very keen to be in full alignment etc!).This story has been in Guardian... and elsewhere.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/03/07/scotland-dark-money-and-the-prince/Posted 6 years ago # -
Brexit: 'Ireland first,' says Tusk after Varadkar meeting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43333274
EU freezes Brexit talks until Britain produces Irish border solution
The Irish Border @BorderIrish
I have taken back controlPosted 6 years ago # -
It will be interesting to see at what point the British give in.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Yes - then the last battle will be Gibralter. We do have enough military power to deal with that. Think of it as Falklands 2 with Easyjet and Ryanair ferrying in our forces.
This will also allow T May to side with Catalonia and make a joint statement with N Sturgeon! No-one in the EU likes Rajoy that much anyway.... ;-)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Presumed liability for Russia? I see on the news there is talk of banning RT, whatever next banning the bbc -)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Foreign interference in Her Britannic Majesty's Realm continues apace;
Posted 6 years ago # -
The chickens furiously hammering on the door of the coop, keen to roost.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
Mr Barnier said there was also an agreement on the rights of 4.5m EU citizens in the UK and the 1.2m UK citizens in the EU after Brexit.
But he said more work still needed to be done on important subjects including the Northern Ireland border.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
Nothing at all worrying about this. Six whole months to solve the problem should be fine.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Brexit: Theresa May vows to keep UK 'strong and united'
There was a time when Conservative leaders didn't need to be convoyed into secure sites for McPotemkin events.
Posted 6 years ago #
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