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Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)

(1928 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from I were right about that saddle

  1. Greenroofer
    Member

    I thought it was interesting that Boris spent several sentences of his resignation letter talking about his unhappiness, as Mayor of London, that due to the EU he couldn't ban lorries with no side visibility which he knew were killing cyclists.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  2. Stickman
    Member

    @Greenroofer: he lied:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-boris-johnson-lied-about-eu-safety-regulation-in-his-resignation-letter

    "...For one thing, he neglects to mention that the regulations he’s talking about were in fact put forward by the European Parliament, and backed by 570 MEPs, with 88 voting against. He also fails to acknowledge that those laws have actually been passed.

    More crucially, Mr Johnson is wrong to say that the laws in question were “supported at every level of UK Government.”

    When the regulations were put forward by the EU, the UK government explicitly did not support the proposals
    It’s curious that Mr Johnson has chosen this particular example to demonstrate what he sees as the problems with EU regulation.

    Not only did he know that the European Parliament had proposed the laws, he also knew that the UK government opposed them — because he explicitly called out ministers on the issue at the time.

    In January 2014, Mr Johnson said: “If these amendments, supported by dozens of cities across Europe, can succeed, we can save literally hundreds of lives across the EU in years to come. I am deeply concerned at the position of the British Government and urge them to embrace this vital issue.”
    .
    "

    Posted 4 months ago #
  3. Greenroofer
    Member

    @stickman - so I see! I've just come back here to post a clarification that I spotted on road.cc
    http://road.cc/content/news/244840-2014-boris-johnson-blamed-uk-blocking-eu-rules-safer-lorries-now-he-blames-eu

    Posted 4 months ago #
  4. gembo
    Member

    @greenroofer, it would seem he is a big fat liar with his pants on fire?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  5. unhurt
    Member

  6. gembo
    Member

    @unhurt, before clicking do it be Game of Thrones?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    It can’t be said too often: in leaving the EU, we must do nothing that threatens to break up our own Union.

    Ms Davidson there, apparently unaware that EU law is necessary to the devolution settlements that have allowed the UK of GB&NI to continue for the last twenty years.

    Perhaps she's also unaware of the Belfast Agreement?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    @IWRATS: surely you aren't suggesting that the Conservatives would have in high office a former journalist with "public appeal" who isn't fully aware of the facts? That simply couldn't happen. At least not twice. And definitely not three times.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Stickman

    It only recently dawned on me that many journalists are too busy writing words to have time to actually understand anything.

    Scales from the eyes and all that.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. Stickman
    Member

    I take it you've seen @kaputnik's superb OPINON MAN!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Honi soit qui mal y pense.

    That is why over the last two years I have travelled up and down the country, listening to views from all four nations of our United Kingdom and every side of the debate.

    I feel listened to, certainly.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    Apparently HoC suspended as Raab hadn't provided printed copies for debate.

    Skim reading...
    Some waffle about goods coming in being sorted for a UK or EU destination. The words 'trusted trader' come up. What about small businesses?
    Where does this sorting take place? Giant warehouses? Private companies will charge to do this. DHL and TNT win.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @LaidBack

    Worry not. Nothing resembling these 'plans' will ever enter into force as that would require the assent of the EU, which will never give it.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    From the WP.

    For communities, addressing specific concerns voiced in the referendum by ending free movement and putting in place a new immigration system, introducing new independent policies to support farming and fishing communities, using the Shared Prosperity Fund to spark a new wave of regeneration in the UK’s towns and cities, and keeping citizens safe.

    SO, that’s a magic money forest to deal with 50 years of neglect and disadvantage experienced by communities that predominantly voted Leave in the hope of ‘better’.

    Might have been more useful - and cheaper - to deal with some of this as the sort of things that Governments are supposed to do to look after the welfare of ‘its people’.

    Of course as Scotland generally didn’t vote leave. It might have to get by with whatever wealth the farming and fishing communities manage to generate in this brave new world.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @chdot

    There is never a shortage of money when a country operates a fiat currency. There can be a shortage of things to spend that money on.

    I can imagine them trying to build things but all the decent builders having been deported.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    “all the decent builders having been deported“

    I think you’re confusing ‘put off from coming/staying’ with ‘I voted Brexit to stop more coming AND get the rest sent back (even the ones that were born here)...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. LaidBack
    Member

      Scottish Tory MP for Angus Kristene Hair, said: “The soft fruits industry in my constituency of Angus and in other parts of the UK are in desperate need of seasonal labour, not just from within the European Economic Area, but from other countries around the world. This is not just a Brexit issue.”

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/16348265.tories-blamed-for-tonnes-of-rotting-fruit-in-perthshire-fields/?ref=mr&lp=3

    Posted 4 months ago #
  18. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Kristene Hair can rest easy;

    Para 20;

    This could include exploring how machine learning and artificial intelligence could allow farmers to automate the collection and submission of soft fruit for retail sale.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Does anyone on here watch television news? Is the rampant disorder and violence in the United Kingdom being reported?

    Quite important in respect of cross-border movement of people, goods and services I'd have thought.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. unhurt
    Member

    TV news from outside NI was always suprsingly uninterested in the annual round of rioting when I lived there. Almost as if no-one else cared what happened to people there.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    The radio report I heard suggested that part of the trouble was related to the fact that part of the annual events was a ‘who can build the biggest bonfire’ competition. This year two of the largest were removed for ‘safety reasons’ - causing further unrest.

    “Almost as if no-one else cared what happened to people there.”

    Inevitably true to a greater or lesser extent. Plenty of people on ‘the mainland’ who wish it would all go away. Probably more people wanting a ‘united Ireland’ than an independent Scotland.

    In current days it’s increasingly ‘acceptable’ to not care about any ‘others’ - even despise, hate or worse.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Tuesday night saw machine gun fire directed at officers, and two pipe bombs were thrown at them the following day.

    I take it UK police being machine-gunned was all over the TV screens?

    I wonder what could possibly be destabilising this part of the UK right now?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    If May can’t hold together her Tory party around the new, softer Brexit deal they agreed in Chequers, then when the split comes, right-wing politics in Britain will be transformed. It will have boot boys, criminals, alt-right bloggers and Old Etonians and they will all be shouting betrayal at May, or anyone who replaces her. And they will go onto the streets.

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/paul-mason-donald-trump-wants-to-turn-the-uk-into-a-wrecking-ball-in-europe-we-are-facing-an-international-far-right-alliance/

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

  25. chdot
    Admin

    Yeah but, even if it’s proved they acted illegally deliberately seems to be no way of voiding Referendum result.

    Even if that was possible don’t seem to be enough people thinking ‘oh we were misled so we would vote differently now’

    Bit like Trump/Putin.

    Senior Republicans condemning what happened yesterday, but ‘base support’ will buy ‘look, it’s best (for America) to try and get along with Putin’.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    seems to be no way of voiding Referendum result

    Immaterial. The Article 50 letter was sent and accepted. This is just the empty cartridge case tinkling on the marble floor. The bullet hit us square in the face.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    “Immaterial”

    Yes.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  28. paulmilne
    Member

    I don't know about that. There have been plenty of noises over the last couple of years about the EU preferring the no-Brexit option. My feeling is that they would welcome us back if we voted again to stay in. Just my opinion, of course.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    they would welcome us back if we voted again to stay in

    I agree, but it would be at a price. Too much harm done for it to be free.

    It's immaterial because there will be no vote and no prime minister will ask for the letter back. It would be humiliating for the UK and probably suicidal for the individual concerned.

    It's utterly tragic.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  30. unhurt
    Member

    It's already humiliating for the UK. But since we have no hope of a PM with principles, as you say: immaterial.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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