@PS
I'd say electoral reform and also reform of the class system. I don't see how one's effective without the other.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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I did wonder about adding "scrap the whole party system thing" but you'd probably need at least some sort of independent vetting/selection process to try and stop the genuinely dangerous from getting too high up, which the current party membership/selection process is supposed to sort of do except that it's utterly flawed when selfishness and/or delusion are deeply-ingrained tenets of a party's belief system. There's always the option of the government being selected through compulsory public service and random selection, with suitable training and further selection for those initially selected, with regular mandatory public voting on various things and checks/sampling to make sure that the public are aware of what they're voting for and its implications etc.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“and real grievances ignored for too long”
Which was, is and will remain a major problem.
Whether people voted out of ignorance, studipity, being lied to, targeted on FB, racism, insularity, dislike of a European superstate - in a political or economic sense, etc (or NONE) of those), people, largely, voted Leave because of frustration, disappointment, feeling ‘ignored’, ‘not listened to’, ‘neglected’, ‘passed over’, ‘passed by’ etc. etc.
What I don’t understand is why anyone can think that being ‘out of Europe’ will change things for the better in any sort of ‘near’ future.
Especially with the present UK Gov.
‘The people have spoken, we’ll give them what they say they want -Brexit - AND THEN give them what they really want - well paid jobs, decent housing, stability, security etc’.
Does not compute.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Brexit has already been a complete success in doing what it was meant to do - sell newspapers.
Posted 5 years ago # -
The Guardian sub-editor is busy writing crash blossoms again
"no-deal Brexit could lead to significant delays at Dover for up to six months"
I'm guessing that means the cheese will go mouldy for sure...
Posted 5 years ago # -
Jon Snow on C4 last night suggested that violence would ensue if the leavers don't get what they want. (Whatever it is).
Remainers are characterised as more proceedural of course. ScotGovs 'Continuity Bill' will get a ruling next week. The people are sovereign in Scotland so trying to overlay WM takes all here won't work well I think.
Posted 5 years ago # -
violence would ensue if the leavers don't get what they want
keep hearing this, but its little more than an idle threat
and even if it was true - fine, lets see them on the strasse
call out the english brownshirts, and see them for what they are
Posted 5 years ago # -
Yeah, I can just see Jacob R-M donning a balaclava & engaging in some fisticuffs
Posted 5 years ago # -
i was at a counter antifa / far right anti-immigrant demo in central Köln a couple of weeks back and it was pathetic
they have some brawn but reassuringly they just don't have the numbers
same in england
Posted 5 years ago # -
The only British nationalist to have killed anyone in England so far seems to have been a fairly isolated and tragic individual;
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38071894
The British/Ulster nationalists in Northern Ireland are maybe another matter. I guess everyday gangsterism is good preparation for this kind of stuff.
Posted 5 years ago # -
just can't see the heidcases of county antrim diluting their cause over this
they know their boundaries only too well
Posted 5 years ago # -
The model I could see being followed in England is the Organisation armée secrète. Turbonationalist soldiers upset about a referendum (whose outcome led to the first and only country ever to leave the EEC - Algeria) who got so riled up they machine-gunned a national war hero in the shape of De Gaulle.
The people I know who have lived through coups and things all say that by the time you realise what's happening it's too late.
Posted 5 years ago # -
There's a lot of money behind some of the most destructive elements in society:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march
Posted 5 years ago # -
the clash of ideologies
sten guns in knightsbridge
we live in interesting times
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
It also said May's deal had avoided making choices about the future relationship with the EU, meaning that negotiations would be needed which would likely go on for "a number of years"
“
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-lawmakers-report-idUSKBN1O8005
Posted 5 years ago # -
Are we approaching the point where this whole thing can't be described in words?
Very poor understanding of natural selection in this Irish Times article but very amusing take on the DUP as the bewildered driving force behind Irish unification.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Le Royaume-Uni est libre de révoquer unilatéralement la notification de son intention de se retirer de l’Union européenne.
https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2018-12/cp180191en.pdf
Turns out the London regime has the power to stop this thing. I don't suppose they will unless at gunpoint.
Posted 5 years ago # -
“
The emergency judgment came the day before the critical Commons vote on Theresa May’s Brexit deal and will be reviewed urgently by Scotland’s civil court in Edinburgh. That process will kickstart what is expected to be a last-ditch legal battle by the UK government, which is likely to end in the supreme court.
“
Posted 5 years ago # -
lots of reporting that tomorrow's vote has been pulled. still nothing official.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Reuters 'reporting' BBC rumour mill - unnamed ministers have said something to somebody at the BBC. Mebbes aye, mebbes nah.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Official now.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Check out @Channel4News’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1072180704249823233?s=09
Kirsty Blackman gives the kind of response that seems lacking from other quarters. I know SNP views are maybe not wanted down south but this government is making contempt official party policy.
I see they are going to appeal the ECJ ruling as that has agreed that Westminster is sovereign in repealing article 50. Disgraceful that a European body should presume to make any ruling on British matters - harumph, harumph.Posted 5 years ago # -
So the tactic here is to keep delaying the vote, if necessary until 28 March until there is a straight choice between no deal and May's deal- i.e. blackmail the MPS to vote it through?
I don't think the EU will offer any significant concessions, any other meaningful Westminster party (her own or Labour) will have the guts to call her out on this and I think that she will get her deal through at the last minute with the acquiescence of Labour.
The only thing that I think may stop it will be a coordinated exodus from big business that they will be taking their jobs and their business offshore, because they can't risk a last minute no deal.
This is brinkmanship of the highest order and the country will enter a major depression because of it.
Posted 5 years ago # -
I think they've just decided to go for a chaotic exit. There will be bluster and goings-on and then it will be too late and shortly afterwards things will go so wrong that a strong hand on the tiller will be required.
Posted 5 years ago # -
may has let me down badly here, with this last minute crooked throw of the dice. i've been bought a decent number of pints in berlin over the past two weeks while explaining to enthusiastic locals that the downfall of the uk gov is imminent and brexit is about to be anulled
and now this no-vote nonsense.. well anyway i said on this thread about ten months ago that brexit wouldn't happen and i'm even more sure of it now, despite this last minute ill-advised legacy saving chicanery
as you were
Posted 5 years ago # -
meanwhile my ever-contrary partner has been advancing a pseudo pro-brexit arg to the bemused berlin locals that we need a hard fast no-deal brexit so that the whole shithouse goes up in flames and thus hasten the onset of real workers socialism, pronto
its all a bit confusing but the pints keep rolling our way regardless
Posted 5 years ago # -
not as good as koln, though.. i barely bought a pint the whole week i was there.. those locals truly love the jocks, brexit or no brexit
Posted 5 years ago # -
One hundred and seven days out from large parts of UK law simply ceasing to be valid and two and a half million UK citizens living abroad ceasing to have any legal right to stay in their homes and three million EU citizens here being dumped into limbo and the Queen's peace in Northern Ireland being fundamentally jeopardised.
The papers and TV seem to think Islamist terrorists and Russian soldiers are the greatest threat to our well-being but it has always seemed to me that the Conservative party is the real menace. Sorry if that offends anybody.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Not offended in the slightest. I think you've summed it up well. Maybe just add a bit about magical thinking re leaving the customs union while maintaining an open border with the EU and we're about there.
On a local note, I stopped to read the sign on the Bilston Viaduct cycle path last week. It listed the EU as a contributer to its upkeep.
Posted 5 years ago #
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