At least the NHS will be better off by £350m per week, right? Right?
No - that was a "mistake", apparently. Oops!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)
(3979 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN. With both barrels: Aimed firmly at foot.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm putting my wee house in Belfast (where I lived from 1998-2009, a period that incidentally saw NI move towards something resembling a normal society & economy - supported by scads & scads of EU cash) on the market today.
My timing is fantastic.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Prime Minister Johnston, President Trump is on the phone..."
This could really happen!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Morningsider
I'd hesitate to predict what will be left for Johnston to be Prime Minister of. The London Special Economic Zone of the Kingdom of England?
Posted 8 years ago # -
IWRATS - I can see two ways that might happen.
1. London is the only part of the UK left after a catastrophic US nuclear strike caused by an incident on a certain Aberdeenshire golf course involving a flock of seagulls and President Trump's "hair".
2. The rest of the UK has been privatised and leased to SERCO.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Speaking as a No/Remain voter, the only option I can see is for London & Edinburgh to go for it together and leave an independent Scotland and an separate non-EU England. Interesting times :-(
Posted 8 years ago # -
Mr Weezee talked me out of buying Yo-Yos before the referendum for our forthcoming trip to my family in Dublin, saying I'd be speculating on a leave while being a remain voter. Ah well. Bigger fish to fry. Like do I want to live here as an EU immigrant, whatever that is going to mean. My children have Irish passports precisely because of my distrust of UK government pulling crazy foreign policy stuff like this. I'd happily swap them for Scottish passports though.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I could envisage a federation of Scotland and a united Ireland, within the EU and the euro-zone. I can't see how London could be shoehorned in, and if somehow it were, it (London) would be so dominant and insular that it would be unstable.
I wonder if Gibraltar would choose at some time to join Spain?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well played, Nicola
I will be communicating over the weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU and I intend to discuss all options for doing so.
I have also spoken this morning with [London] mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London, so there is clear common cause between us.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I know this sounds like a stupid question. But could London 'leave' England? Sounds crazy, but in many ways it already has and its interests are not really aligned with much of the rest of the country (in both good and bad ways)
Posted 8 years ago # -
There isn't any mechanism for London to secede (unlike Scotland) other than armed insurrection.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I could envisage a federation of Scotland and a united Ireland
The idea of a united Ireland makes my heart sink. There is no popular appetite for this in the Republic, financially or socially. And so much work has been done to bring the communities of NI together, a border poll could seriously destabilise that.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The idea of a united Ireland makes my heart sink
I bow to your much greater knowledge of the island of Ireland than me. Do you think the NI unionists would rather be associated with a truncated England outside the EU, than find a way to stay within the EU?
Posted 8 years ago # -
There isn't any mechanism for London to secede (unlike Scotland) other than armed insurrection.
I'd pay good money to see that film!
Posted 8 years ago # -
I did a mail out this morning to let them know that Scotland wants to stay in EU despite the result from England and Wales.
Reaction of my EU connections is one of great sadness but no surprise as UK had so many opt outs and rebates. However they all look forward to working directly with Scotland - if that is possible.
In NL they are now talking of NEXIT.
Czech want to stay with us.
German personal view "they have ruined the future of the younger generation.
Who doesn't like the idea of being a little bit anarchic against the EU but I think, England and Wales will regret this decision.'None of these are official views but as they are all small business they want to work with us. Very sad.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Being selfish here:
just as long as my new Fuego still arrives from across the water :)
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ih From a rough look at the geographic breakdown of the leave vote in NI, yes, I think unionists would choose crown over EU. DUP vote was leave, despite rural areas EU farming subsidies, yet another example of heart-over-head voting in this referendum.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was in London last week with different clients over a couple of days and to a man and woman, none of them were voting OUT. The issue though, is that these were relatively prosperous, middle class people.
There are, however, a lot of people who are deeply unhappy with immigration, especially in poorer areas down south - their feelings were stoked up by the likes of the Daily Mail and The Sun (what will their headlines look like now??) and the dangerous right-wing factions in the Conservative party / UKIP.
I have met nobody today that was in any way in favour of BREXIT.
However.......
I have to see my parents later, and am having to think carefully about how I handle it - they are older, daily mail reading, brexit fans who will probably be doing cartwheels at this result - despite the fact that the fallout will undoubtedly not be on them, more likely on my 10 year old son - which is sad.
A lot of people said they felt sorry for Cameron after his speech this morning - not me, his naked political ambition and sop to the right wing of his party has backfired badly - he gambled with our futures and has put at risk 40 years of prosperity and peace with Europe.
God help us if Johnson or May become leader as they are even worse.
I am becoming more and more angry as the day goes on - a few friends that voted No in Indyref have now said they wish they had voted Yes.........I have resisted the urge to say I Told You So.
Posted 8 years ago # -
With Apologies (to the 47%) by andy a, on Flickr
Posted 8 years ago # -
There are, however, a lot of people who are deeply unhappy with immigration, especially in poorer areas down south - their feelings were stoked up by the likes of the Daily Mail and The Sun (what will their headlines look like now??) and the dangerous right-wing factions in the Conservative party / UKIP.
There are indeed - and while some are simple out and out racists/xenophobes there are more who have been persuaded by the media to lay the blame for their problems at the door of Those Others (with no real differentiation between EU migrants, refugees, etc. etc.). A nice trick. That's been done before in Europe. And that ended really well...
Posted 8 years ago # -
public school branleurs
Well, I learned a new French word today.
Cheers IWRATS ;)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I am becoming more and more angry as the day goes on
fearing the worst, I managed to get all the way through the Kübler-Ross cycle earlier in the week
really should have stocked up on more euros, tho
Posted 8 years ago # -
As Mark Steel pointed out, one of the most upsetting things about the vile anti-immigration rhetoric of the right is that it was appropriated by people who in reality are suffering on account of the current government austerity programs, but have been presented with an easily identifiable bogeyman on whom to blame their ills. The places in the country with most immigration voted to remain, those where immigration is less but poverty is greater due to the austerity cuts appear to have voted overwhelmingly to leave.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was one of I suspect many who considered voting Yes in IndyRef1 precisely because of the risk of Brexit, and not because I particularly wanted to see an independent Scotland. However, my assessment of that risk was that it was small, despite having far-reaching consequences, so I voted No in the belief that the UK would be better kept together as part of the EU. It would be easy for Yes voters to say I Told You So, but it would be worth resisting that temptation because there are probably many like me who aren't nationalists at heart, but do feel that if it's either/or for Scotland - part of the UK or part of the EU - we'd choose the EU.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Lots of phrases being banded about, Tory, Right wing, UKIP etc.
It's worth noting that the Labour/Socialist vote also voted out in huge numbers. Wales voted out, Industrial England voted out.
This result didn't happen because of a right wing agenda, this is a failure of the political class to gauge the feeling of large swathes of the nation, and engage with those who feel disenfranchised. Much was said last night about how people from the 'estates' came out in numbers never before seen in any election before.
We now unfortunately have to deal with the consequences, including the re-ignition of the debate around the break up of the UK.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@algo, I just saw an FT infographic that shows that, perversely, the areas of the country that voted most emphatically for Brexit are those areas most heavily reliant on various flavours of EU funding.
Posted 8 years ago # -
This result didn't happen because of a right wing agenda
I'd disagree I'm afraid - the rhetoric of the right is what resonated with those who feel most disenfranchised. I agree that is is a massive failure of labour, in particular, to engage with this feeling and present an alternative view. The phrase "I want my country back" which seemed to be parroted so often, is in my opinion precisely due to the toxic and untrue language of a right wing agenda.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Classic Trump misreading of the facts (talking about the Scots after landing at his golf course):
"Basically, they took back their country. That's a great thing"
Posted 8 years ago # -
"where immigration is less but poverty is greater due to the austerity cuts appear to have voted overwhelmingly to leave"
But *of course* there will now (well, maybe 2 years) be MUCH more money to spend on the most deserving people/parts of (various) countries.
Posted 8 years ago #
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