CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

St James Redevelopment

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  1. neddie
    Member

    "I am trying hard to find solutions within the legal, financial and physical constraints of this project."

    (Lesley Macinnes)

    I take that to mean that she really wants to do something, i.e. to make it genuinely people-orientated, but the developers have the council over a barrel.

    Legally, I guess the developers have the right to do whatever they want, thanks to Tram legacy agreements.

    Financially, I guess the council want the developer contribution which is time-limited.

    Physically, I guess the Tram and the Car Park are already getting built so have to be serviced.

    These are only guesses.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. Morningsider
    Member

    The lack of vision here is staggering. I thought it might be instructive to look at how have other cities have tackled areas like this. Here is a street view of the area outside John Lewis in three cities roughly the size of Edinburgh.

    Cardiff: https://goo.gl/maps/QhgAztCS7vG2
    Glasgow: https://goo.gl/maps/Bk9hBakUci22
    Liverpool: https://goo.gl/maps/RVSNyBrqe632

    Notice any unifying themes? All dead centre of the city, all pedestrianised, no thundering traffic canyon. It's not that it can't be done. Choices have been made in these places, the same as they are being made in Edinburgh.

    Surely it is now clear that cities (including Edinburgh) can't ever cope with the level of private vehicular traffic that might wish to travel there. Maximising traffic flow here simply moves the blockages along to Broughton, Leith, The Bridges and elsewhere - to the detriment of people who live, work and shop in those areas.

    This is the most easily accessible part of the city - the Waverley, Bus Station, Tram and local buses all serve the area. Yet the city chooses the worst possible option to manage access by private cars - rationing road space by congestion. Community severance, air pollution, noise, injury accidents will all be higher - and for what? So the minority who choose to pass through the area by car (many never stopping) might have a slightly shorter trip.

    What is the alternative? Removing general traffic lanes, prioritising public and active travel, improving community life - make driving harder and the alternatives more attractive and people will leave the car at home. Remember - car ownership in the Netherlands and Denmark is actually higher than in Scotland. Are Scots uniquely stupid when it comes to travel choices? I don't think so.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Legally, I guess the developers have the right to do whatever they want, thanks to Tram legacy agreements.

    Hotel boss was adamant that he was agnostic on what was done as long as it was done. (Notwithstanding @Roibeard's view on their integrity.)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Are Scots uniquely stupid when it comes to travel choices?

    Laser-like question. I don't think so either. The difference may be down to the quality of our local democracy (awful because we won't participate) and our local press (awful because we won't pay for it).

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Good to know...

    Across the public sector, there is a growing focus on Place which requires a One Public Sector approach.

    This approach looks at how public assets can be deployed collaboratively to enable joined up services, achieve better outcomes for communities, deliver efficiencies and savings and provide leverage for economic growth.

    https://www.scottishfuturestrust.org.uk/page/place

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    “Are Scots uniquely stupid when it comes to travel choices?”

    Scots commuters remain stubbornly wedded to their cars with no reduction in driving to work compared to a decade ago, new Scottish Government figures show.

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18180

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. Klaxon
    Member

    It’s 5pm on a weekday and there is only light traffic on North Bridge and coming up Leith Walk. There is a short and normal size queue (6-7 deep?) on York Place

    Leith Walk, further down closed to 1 lane each way, is moving freely

    What in heavens could have caused this radical reduction in general motor traffic here?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    Okay, I've written to my Leith Walk councillors, and all members of the Transport committee.

    I won't bother to share in full here, but suffice to say I pointed out that the proposals do not respect current thinking on the hierarchy of transport usage; They do not comply with CEC and Scot Gov Street Design Guidance; They do not even fulfil the Council's own transport and sustainability objectives stated in the design brief from 2007; They will create an unsafe, unpleasant and polluted space; There has been no proper public consultation; etc.

    I urged them to reconsider and pointed them to Sustrans' alternative proposals, which are much better and more fitting for a C21st city.

    I have also written to Ben Macpherson MSP, who represents my constituency. As apparently only one MSP can help you, I am considering using social media to highlight issues to my list MSPs.

    Please write to your councillors and MSP about this issue!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. Stickman
    Member

    "Just heard a rumour that the Picardy Place report has been pulled from next week's TEC meeting."

    https://mobile.twitter.com/profscottthinks/status/913151583369793539

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    Ha! Maybe we've got them on the run.

    Keep up the pressure, good folk of Edinburgh!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. Stickman
    Member

    1.I took decision this morning following extensive discussion w/officials to defer the Picardy Place report til Dec7 meeting of Trans comm..

    https://mobile.twitter.com/lmacinnessnp/status/913156184747765760

    More on her Twitter feed. More public engagement, she wants t get it right.

    Well done on everyone for putting the pressure on. Maybe this might turn out ok.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. HankChief
    Member

    Great stuff. Prompted by a tweet from @SRD, I've just sent Cllr Macinnes a copy of Janette Sadik Khan's excellent Street Fight book.

    Hopefully it will give her confidence to make rational, evidence based decisions that put People first rather than perpetuating a car dominated environment.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

  14. Frenchy
    Member

    As apparently only one MSP can help you, I am considering using social media to highlight issues to my list MSPs.

    Not sure what exactly you meant by this, but for clarity:

    You are free to lobby any and all of "your" MSPs on any issue. That means your constituency MSP AND your seven list MSPs.

    You're also free to lobby any Minister (such as the Minister for Transport and The Islands), even if they're not one of "your" MSPs.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. Frenchy
    Member

    Also, I'm not entirely sure what Cllr Macinnes' tweets mean, but it certainly seems like good news!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    This is fantastic news. Edinburgh Cycle Crazies are operating as a genuine force for good.

    We need to use the extra time wisely. It would be good to keep up the onslaught of positive suggestions and detailed critiques but also to figure out who and what is behind the gyratory. Is it just a mistake or does someone actually want this horror to be built?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "Is it just a mistake or does someone actually want this horror to be built?"

    Think it's obvious from the fact that Sustrans pulled out of the PP working/design group that more than one person wants this built.

    And presumably some of them still work for CEC.

    In the days of Lothian Region senior officials were persuaded to take early retirement because they kept doing designs for roads that LRC had voted to remove from list of new projects.

    Not quite the same here, but clearly some officials are ignoring various CEC policies and 'aspirations'.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    @Frenchy, just going by info on TheyWorkForYou:

    "7 Lothian Scottish Parliament region MSPs also represent you; if you are writing on a constituency matter or similar local or personal problem, please write to your constituency MSP above, or pick just one of your regional MSPs. Only one MSP is allowed to help you at a time."

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "positive suggestions and detailed critiques"

    Clearly 'we' all have individual ideas and some are posted here and also Twitter and in emails to various councillors.

    I think we are in a position where the Sustrans' design may be the most worked up alternative - and Lesley's change of view may mean it will be seriously considered.

    Perhaps a new thread to discuss whether this is optimum or look at ways of improving it?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Only one MSP is allowed to help you at a time.

    From experience I can say they take no account whatever of that. They're competing for our votes after all.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    "Perhaps a new thread to discuss whether this is optimum or look at ways of improving it?"

    Yes, a good idea. Personally I think they've got it pretty much right in balancing the various interests. Fruitful to unpack it all though and see what works well and what could be improved.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. crowriver
    Member

    @IWRATS, certainly in the past I've contacted several MSPs, but now I'm feeling a bit more like "playing by the rules". I'll think on it more. There is time now...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @chdot

    Sustrans are nice people but in this situation they'd have a compromise plan to cover up the young lady and use rubber bayonets to storm a suburban sports centre instead.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "balancing the various interests"

    https://twitter.com/cyclingedin/status/913179231357739008

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. crowriver
    Member

    In comparison to the dire proposals that are actually being promoted by the developers and council, the Sustrans proposals are radical. Sure, not as radical as banning cars completely from the entire area, but they do represent an alternative and positive vision that has been designed with active travel in mind. I'd rather argue for this than the tinkering at the edges in a half hearted manner that we're likely to get without a positive alternative.

    That new thread:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=18183#post-261905

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. Klaxon
    Member

    ‘As apparently only one MSP can help you, ’

    Only one elected representative can take on a given item of case work on your behalf at any given time but in this sort of one way ‘I’m not happy with what’s happening’ scenario you are quite welcome to write to everyone at once (just make it clear that’s what you’re doing)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    @Klaxon, also from TheyWorkForYou/WriteToThem:

    "Write to all your regional MSPs (only use this option if you are writing to your MSPs about voting issues or other issues concerning matters in the Scottish Parliament. "

    Seems pretty clear to me. I presume this is based on official guidance.

    As I'm writing on a constituency/local matter (i.e.. asking him to intervene in a council/planning issue) I've restricted myself to my constituency representative for the time being, even though I didn't vote for him. :-)

    I will continue to interact with list MSPs, including those I voted for, via Twitter etc. for the time being. If I sense that matters are coming to a crisis point, I may reconsider my approach.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    Seems Edinburgh needs some sort of magic traffic flow accelerator -

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/heavy-congestion-across-edinburgh-as-rush-hour-delays-expected-1-4572246

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    3 cheers for Cllr MacInnes. Great news. Hopefully sense and evidence will get a look in for the redesign.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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