CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Carrots or Sticks

(22 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from wingpig
  • poll: Carrot or Stick?
    Carrots; pay me £75 a month to cycle : (11 votes)
    85 %
    Stick; charge me £75 a month to drive : (2 votes)
    15 %

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  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I saw a poster by the instant hot brown water machines in work today advertising parking spaces somewhere else in Edinburgh Park for hire for £75 / month. If you work full time, that's about £3.75 a day, or slightly more than a return city bus journey.

    Given there's a not insubstantial number of employees who get free parking in our own car parks (although demand always vastly exceeds supply), it got me thinking. What would be more of an encouragement for employers to get their employees not to drive and to instead cycle to work; deducting £75 a month for a parking pass, or adding £75 credit a month to those who cycle.

    From an administrative purpose, the former is obviously easier, as you just sell the permit; it would be very difficult to check out who is actually cycling in regularly. However people running a car already will possibly be more likely to suck up the cost of a parking permit.

    If £75 a day is the going rate for maintaining a parking space in an edge of town office park and given 2/3 of the very valuable and expensive land our office sit on is just a car park, I wonder when the company accountants will begin to realise quite how expensive it is to subsidise employees' driving habits.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. jdanielp
    Member

    How about charging drivers £X a month AND then dividing the total proceeds monthly between regular cyclists! ;)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. Does anyone ever park on the double yellows on Lochside Avenue?

    It would appear to be a private road, so I'd imagine out with the remit of the local wardens and plod.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. gembo
    Member

    If anyone shouts at you from a car, I pay road tax just shout back Not enough.

    Who would pay you £75 a month to cycle? How would they know you were doing it?

    CEC should bring in a congestion charge - Scot gov should allow this without reducing their grant to CEC.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @kaputnik

    Access control. You get the £75 for swiping your pass on the changing room in and out for sixteen days each month. The list of recipients is published, peer pressure shames those who are in reality drivists.

    I'm sure there's someone watching swiping behaviour for MI purposes already in such a behemoth.

    Watch out for the cost of parking in the accounts thing - that will just lead to you working in a shed on an industrial estate in Bathgate.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    I only stay 8 miles from work so I don't bother getting changed.

    And when I did get changed it was in the chemistry store.

    Everybody in the building… and most of Airdrie/Coatbridge know that I cycle every day.

    Our bike shed was set on fire but I've never used it. Even my cumbersomes spend the day inside the building.

    I wouldn't need £75, I'd do it for costs.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    "...most of Airdrie/Coatbridge know that I cycle every day. Our bike shed was set on fire."

    Yikes. You owe anyone £75?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    @iwrats, wee folding bike means the bike shed at banner man high. Eight miles from airdrie. It is set on fire not wee folding bike's shed.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. At my work the charity committee hold a raffle on the last dress-down day of the month as way of collecting for the work's charities. The prize is a car-parking space on the ground floor near the entrance closest to the building. (Parking is free, although there is a monthly exclusion day as there are more driving in than there are available spaces).

    I asked what the prize was for those of us who cycled to work, as we're encouraged to do. I was told there was nothing - I could give the free space away to another driver as I would not be allowed to park my bike in it.

    To be fair, on speaking to a friendlier charity committee member, I found out that they were given the space for free to raffle by the company, so an alternative prize to a non-driver would cost the charity money. Still, if a space is worth £75 then perhaps the company (who claim to be a cycle-friendly employer, despite growing evidence to the contrary these days) could donate an alternative prize on the rare occasion that a cyclist won it? ;-)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    HMRC making workplace parking a taxable benefit might change things...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. wee folding bike
    Member

    I don't have a bike shed, I have some in the garage, some in the garden and one inside the house.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. "I would not be allowed to park my bike in it."

    What is the legal situation if you park your bike in a parking space? I parked my bike (once even with a trailer) in the middle of a space on a supermarket car park a few times when there weren't any racks. To be fair, the car park was always quite empty so I guess if anybody noticed they probably just found it funny.

    Would the car park owner have the right to cut my lock and remove the bike? Or the council, if it's an on-street parking space?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Hand out fivers randomly to commuters in the mornings and publicise it. If the 5p bag charge could change people's behaviour more than environmental arguments then that might work. £5 would cover inner-tubes, lost hats, that sort of thing.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    @cyclingmollie, you could be on to something there. I once found a wet fiver in the leaves I have to sweep up outside my front door. I have to do it or the house would be buried but I am strangely keen to do this since I found the blue one. This weekend saw the last batch shovelled in to the brown bin.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    Stick would be easier to administer but carrot would have the most effect. Hardcore drivest would just whinge about the hard pressed motorists and pay it, others with few choices would likely put up with it. But £75 cash in your pocket would change the equation and might temp folk.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. gibbo
    Member

    "What would be more of an encouragement for employers to get their employees not to drive and to instead cycle to work; deducting £75 a month for a parking pass, or adding £75 credit a month to those who cycle."

    If the goal is to get people to cycle, rather than simply to get them to not drive, then it must be the carrot.

    On the other hand, if the goal is to get them to not drive, then the answer is the stick.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. newtoit
    Member

    Hmm. I was looking at a job out at Edinburgh Park and they made a big deal of the fact there was free parking on site. No mention of bike parking at all but they did have an on site gym with free towel hire!

    I think the parking space for £75/month is far easier to administer for a company (though some of the larger businesses out of town certainly have the resource and brains to figure out a way to implement. Best way is probably with a swipe in/swipe out bike garage. At my employer's London office there is an underground bike park with fobs for entry which you attach to your bike.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It was with much reluctance that we got the facilities management in our building to take on some more responsibility for the cycling facilities; locker administration mainly. Previously people would get a locker, forget about it or stop cycling (or leave the company!) and the keys would disappear. A small group of us lobbied to get the abandoned lockers released and they ended up having to replace a lot of locks to achieve this. The cost seemed to convince them it was more efficient to keep a list of locker users and do occasional usage audits.

    For car parking however we have a company-wide online booking system and also a smartphone app! It's easier to book a car parking space than it is to book a desk... Priorities, eh?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. wingpig
    Member

    I'm sure there was a thread for this sort of thing a couple of years ago where people were devising fantasy car-use-charging schemes or suggesting that the cost of a car parking space would decrease with greater occupancy...

    It wasn't Workplace parking levy...

    Nor Motorists face levy to park at work...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. gembo
    Member

    @steveo _ I am just imagining the EEN FURY if my employers started paying me more than the 25p a mile they pay me already to cycle (sadly not the first or last journeys of my day).

    The bike to work scheme is another bonus but I bet that has only encouraged people who cycle already to get a new bike?

    THe money, should it be real, must be spent on segregted infrastructure to get the nervous to take the plunge.

    Workplaces could buy electric bikes and have charging stations for the batteries?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. steveo
    Member

    If my employer were to introduce something of this ilk the EEN would probably also kick up a stink though it has no business with a privately owned company and it would be completely ignored but that rag needs to sell advertising some how. It would be nice if you're employer wasn't quite so scared of the EEN.

    Dunno about the bike to work it got me going, I replaced my monthly bus pass with the bike payments. I was considering it already but that gave me a kick.

    Since then its been for new kit, though one was a replacement for the first bike which was passed its prime and headed towards retirement so it could be argued that it kept me on the road if not got me riding.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. wingpig
    Member

    "The money, should it be real, must be spent on segregted infrastructure to get the nervous to take the plunge."

    The money could be used against the charges levied against employers to make their immediate surroundings suitable for human use? The more cycling/walking an employer encourages the less the per capita charge?

    Posted 9 years ago #

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