http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07nr23w/reporting-scotland-evening-news-29082016
15 mins in.
Even in a 10 second sound bite PG manages to get a distortion of the plans in. Unbelievable.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
Monday 29th - Ride the Route
(173 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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I was chatting to the cycle team at waverely court yesterday. Very sanguine given all their great efforts to get the route established and how that has been distorted.
Is there a whistle blowing helpline to whistleblow on whistleblowers who bend the truth?
Could be the committee fails to reach a decision today such is the madness around.?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Could be the committee fails to reach a decision today such is the madness around.?"
To be continued on new thread -
Posted 7 years ago # -
@acsimpson You're not protected from head injury just by driving! Clearly this protester was doing the responsible thing to mitigate the risks of their chosen form of transport.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Article in the Edinburgh Evening News
PG says:The only businesses that will flourish under this new regime are the odd coffee shop, or something that doesn’t need parking.
He is literally saying that a cafe is the one business that CAN survive the cycle path!Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Edinburgh Reporter (@EdinReporter)
30/08/2016, 6:54 am
I just uploaded “Ride the Route! From Charlotte Square to Roseburn Terrace” to #Vimeo:"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Sorry I missed this guys I had a sick eldest and wife. I'd much rather have been arguing with half wits than the cleaning up sick.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I know this is not a nice thing to say about some businesses in Roseburn, but I do wish that there were more shops and fewer services. I have no need of a carpet cleaner or a picture framer, but I'd quite like an interesting charity shop to browse through, or a place I could get a birthday present for a friend.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I'd much rather have been arguing with half wits than the cleaning up sick."
Tough call...
Posted 7 years ago # -
I like the anti guy who shouted out, "Where's your helmet" in the video.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I know this is not a nice thing to say about some businesses in Roseburn, but I do wish that there were more shops and fewer services."
I don't think "not a nice thing" is the issue.
It's more that RT isn't really a shopping street.
I presume it was once, and there may be ways to make it so again...
In reality, quite a few of the businesses there would do better elsewhere. Perhaps some will now stop thinking about 'being forced out of business' and consider if they (and their customers) would do better elsewhere.
I presume all the ones that are no longer 'proper shops' have gone through the appropriate Planning process.
Interesting that you mention charity shops.
There are three main 'clusters' in Edinburgh - Stockbridge, Morningside and South Side.
In the past the appearance of a charity shop was seen as a sign of 'retail decline'
Those 3 areas are quite 'vibrant' with lots of cafes and reasonable range of 'proper' shops.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'd much rather have been arguing with half wits
There were a couple of people who may not be neurotypical, but everyone I spoke to seemed to be perfectly intelligent. Opposition isn't stupid, nor is it malign.
Posted 7 years ago # -
People are genuinely and reasonably worried about their businesses. Unfortunately the impact of such a scheme is hard to divine - we can quote the studies done elsewhere, and they can quote their local knowledge. Most people I talked to were fairly reasonable, but their opening gambits often needed a little finessing.
Unfortunately, there were quite a few anti-cycling (but I'm a cyclist too) clichés, which were all missing the point somewhat I felt. There were several arguments which I had to deal with which were clearly non-sequetur, and others which were purely based on anecdote, projection and emotion. One argument which I got a lot was "there is already a great off-road path to Leith" - which is true. But if you get on the M8 you don't *always* go to Glasgow - you can turn off and take in the delights of Shotts if you would like.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Opposition isn't stupid" - generally or around Roseburn?
Problem in Roseburn is that plenty of the objectors have been infected by gross distortions.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I was thinking about the Roseburn Cafe...
If what the owner says is correct, he gets a lot of his trade from passing vans and cars that are parked illegally. He told me that his business had dropped 70% when they'd introduced the double-red lines [and other restrictions]. (I guess this happened some years ago.)
The thing is, if I had a business that was so dependent on an illegal activity, I would be looking to fix that in some way (to eliminate the risk of going-under if said illegal activity is prevented by enforcement).
The way I see it, he has 3 choices:
1. Lobby CEC to allow parking legally in that location. (Good luck with that, given the other conflicts & constraints.)
2. Move the cafe to another location where there is legal parking and passing trade. (Does such a place exist other than motorway service stations?)
3. Move his customer base more towards pedestrians, bus users, legally parked drivers and cyclists who are in the area for other reasons (as well as locals / regulars).
On speaking to him, he told me he was in his 50s and was worried he wouldn't be able to get a different job. I got the feeling he had no desire to move the business.
So that only leaves option 3. And we all know how to implement that...
Posted 7 years ago # -
@edd1e_h - do you remember he told us that you can't trust Alison Johnstone because she voted against the congestion charge? We both found it a bit hard to believe at the time - I can only find reference to the greens supporting it....
Posted 7 years ago # -
Interestingly, one of the empty shops at the moment has been vacated by a card shop... Which has moved to an even more parking-unfriendly spot in Haymarket, presumably where there's better passing foot trade.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@algo
Yeah, I remember that. I was very confused as to what his point was. I think he was trying to accuse the Greens and all environmentalists of being hypocrites.
He also mistakenly assumed that everyone there was in some way "green".
I tried to argue that being Green/an environmentalist was an ideal to strive towards - that you'd didn't have to be perfect at it, but 'every little helps'.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Opposition isn't stupid" - generally or around Roseburn?
Generally. Stupid people exist and take all sorts of positions. There will be morons in favour of Option A.
Imagining that people disagree with you because they are stupid is a very effective barrier to persuading them to change their minds. In fact, it's a good idea to assume them to be intelligent and moral and start from that shared position.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"...or a place I could get a birthday present for a friend."
A bacon roll? A voucher for the dog shop?
Cafés must be one of the quickest-changing shop-types about. It's a pity the council atlas doesn't have a layer for viewing commercial premises by type over time so you could see them appearing and disappearing.
A bunch of shops which expects to get its trade from passing vehicles usually looks a bit more like this than Roseburn Terrace. If they were serious about allowing motor traffic to dominate the area they ought to be devoting their energies to knocking down one side of the street to fit an extra couple of lanes in, or requesting to be West Maitland Streeted and have a one-way loop round Roseburn Street/Place/Gardens.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Missed this one yesterday.
Don't think it's quite worth its own thread.
"
Team GB has had phenomenal success in the Velodrome at this year’s Olympics. Twelve cycling medals make Britain the leading track cycling nation and I’m sure the jubilant scenes in Rio will inspire many more people to take up the sport.
The only disappointment for me is that we cannot transfer this enthusiasm for cycling into our everyday commute to work or trip to the shops.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
algo - Alison Johnstone didn't become an Edinburgh councillor until 2007, two years after the congestion charge referendum.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Morningsider - thanks - edd1e_h and I were I think trying to argue that (obviously it didn't apply to Andy Wightman), but weren't sure on the spot about the dates....
Posted 7 years ago # -
@LivD I have stood by the Roseburn Bar considering buying a card from that shop, and then decided it's not worth my while going all the way to the crossing and back just to get a card. The new crossing as part of the re-design would have made it easy.
Posted 7 years ago # -
knocking down one side of the street to fit an extra couple of lanes in
Or how 'bout 1.6 billion for a motorway style flyover and some sort of spaghetti off-ramp system landing motors directly at the doors of the shops?
Like this: https://goo.gl/maps/YY4e6Hhyk492
Or this: https://goo.gl/maps/75erTMcK1QB2
Posted 7 years ago # -
"There are three main 'clusters' in Edinburgh - Stockbridge, Morningside and South Side."
Also Leith Walk and top of Easter Road.....so that's at least five main 'clusters'. Probably Portobello High Street too, that makes six.
Fave comment on the EEN article so far: "They look like a bunch of trendy bible class teachers." (I presume he means the serried ranks of cyclists, grinning in the direction of the photographer with religious zeal in their eyes).
Posted 7 years ago # -
@algo and @edd1_h " do you remember he told us that you can't trust Alison Johnstone because she voted against the congestion charge? "
I don't know if Alison voted against the congestion charge, but 2 points;
I'm surprised the cafe owner appeared to support the con.ch which would seem to be against his own 'passing trade' interest.
There was a recent post and link (actually might have been an @srd tweet) where an English city (Nottingham?) had introduced a workplace parking levy which is much more efficient at reducing unnecessary car commuting than con.ch and provides funding for extentions to their tram network.
Posted 7 years ago # -
When asked about Roseburn protesters jeering cyclists, he admitted emotions were running high. “The problem is people are very angry and upset at the way cyclists have addressed this. They don’t seem to want to engage. “That was an expression of frustration, because we were hoping people would stop. And they were ringing their bells. There was a concerted plan to ring bells as a sign of ‘We don’t give a toss’.
The shouts of 'B*gger off' were invitations to stop and chat and the tinkling of bells an instruction to b*gger off. Did anyone see a white rabbit?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Ringing their bells" - because the best way to hear an alternative viewpoint is being shouted at when riding a bike through a busy main road.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@IWRATS - where's that quote from? I like the idea that PG says we caused all the traffic by stopping on the old bridge, but from what's written there, it seems we should have stopped and blocked the entire road.
Posted 7 years ago #
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