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Do we need an Indyref2 thread?

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "Vet Med has no explicit "one sitting" rule."

    Just wondering, purely out of pure interest, is "explicit" a key word in university entrance requirements.

    Much is speculated in 'the media' (mainly in connection with 'top' unis) about hidden requirements/expectations and also the advantages (or not) of Public (private) education/coaching and also about measures to advantage the disadvantaged.

    Are minimum exam requirements known publicly before people apply for particular courses?

    Are there actually 'certainties' about the other things universities may or may not want/look for like 'interests', 'volunteering' etc.?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "Pushy parents on the phone can sometimes get round entry requirements."

    Ah.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. Frenchy
    Member

    Are minimum exam requirements known publicly before people apply for particular courses?

    Yes. Edinburgh's requirements are now online for 2018 entry - published online for each degree. For example: http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/degrees/index.php?action=programme&code=D100

    Are there actually 'certainties' about the other things universities may or may not want/look for like 'interests', 'volunteering' etc.?
    Possibly, but I don't know them other than a vague "displaying an interest is preferable" and "actions speak louder than words".

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    Ta.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. barnton-to-town
    Member

    "The SNP do need to be held to account, and they have been fairly timid on a range of issues, not least transport."

    Why would that holding to account be done via an independence referendum?

    Their primary raison d'etre is to deliver independence to Scotland, and to do that, they have to be politically engaged with the establishment (despite the Holyrood establishment specifically being designed to thwart them).

    If they're not engaged; they're #SNPbad. If they are engaged, they're #SNPbad for not proving (to the unionists' satisfaction) that devolution without independence can work. And that's between a rock and a hard place for the SNP BY DESIGN.

    In my opinion, they've done a better job in government in Scotland with LIMITED fiscal autonomy in comparison to what's going on at Westminster. How's your national debt looking ....

    The overriding "holding to account" from the SNP members' perspective is that it is understood to be doing the best it can to achieve independence.

    The day job of governance, while it must be acceptable within the obvious limitations of devolution, is secondary.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    "The day job of governance, while it must be acceptable within the obvious limitations of devolution, is secondary."

    That's a bold statement. I suspect many at all levels of the SNP would disagree (or be unwilling to say so).

    Others not wanting Independence would perhaps say 'obviously, which is part of the problem'.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. Morningsider
    Member

    BTT - the national debt isn't "yours", it is "ours". Scotland benefits from debt funding, just the same as the rest of the UK. Scotland will be liable for a share of that debt if people choose independence. This was accepted in the last independence white paper (see pages 348-350) and I can't see that changing.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    With indyref2 I am taking a more light hearted approach as I found the posturing from both sides (my own included) distasteful. I also objected to the bending of truth from both sides. Also I am going to try it from the other side this time to see if that is any better. The québécois found the whole two indyref soldiers so divisive they have decided never again (not checked that maybe they are having one tomorrow).

    On the education front, the first three years of secondary are broad general education there is narrowing, more than in standard grades but less than in o grade as I forgot to say one of my seven was arithmetic. That seems to have been absorbed now but boy was it. Easy for me. However, at a big school you could probably do five highers in s5 and a different five highers in s6 and certainly if less academic you are able to do Nat 4s in s4, Nat 5s in s5 and highers in s6. In theory.

    I do not recognise all of crowriver's account. I do not deny it, I just do not recognise all of it. The 44 bus delivers many children who live on its route out to Balerno. The bus stops right at the school

    Bit of a trek from McDonald Road area when you are just 12 but it is a good school.

    Highers are obvioislu a one year course, and obviously you can do advanced highers now in s6. My eldest now at edin uni applied for Glasgow and St. Andrews too. All asked for four As in one sitting last year. Even if you have five As in one sitting I think vet med will make you sit the medical examination .? Not checking that either. A levels are obviously a two year course and maybe you can still go straight into year 2 in Scotland? Probably not. I have various sixth year studies certificates (three maths papers I think, not checking) but never occurred to me to try to argue I could go into second year?

    @weefolds, those parents must be masons to talk university round as entry requirements strict. Skewed towards those that are paying I feel. Could be wrong. Maybe the pushy parents also make big donations? Maybe that is perfidious calumny.

    Meeting eldest daughter tomorrow for lunch. She lives in 5 girl flat and 5 other girls live across the landing. Very basic but very expensive accommodation. Of the ten young women she is the only one who went to a comprehensive school. I find this more telling than a discussion about curricula as these most certainly come and go but World War One is still the topic in history.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. barnton-to-town
    Member

    Morningsider, I fully accept that the national debt is ours, which means we all have our own share of it. Using the pejorative (in this case) "your" adds a little more focus to the fact that each individual's debt is blooming (even under current Westminster austerity).

    I'd also say that taking a share of the liabilities means taking a share of the assets, and that would most certainly mean maintaining sterling as the currency (with all that that entails) until deemed no longer necessary, regardless of what any incumbent Chancellor of the UK claimed.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "Scotland will be liable for a share of that debt if people choose independence"

    "I'd also say that taking a share of the liabilities means taking a share of the assets"

    I'm sure both of those are true. I wonder how long the wrangling would take.

    Before that happens (or maybe in parallel?) there will be interesting discussions about 'how much the UK will have to pay for leaving (or perhaps staying in relations with) the EU.

    IF the UK 'refuses to pay' (or, as some Tory politicians are saying, demands a rebate) that will send an interesting message to whoever is in charge of Scotland's negotiations for DevoExtra or an Independence settlement.

    Might be a good time to have some public discussions about 'what is money', who 'creates' it, who is the "National Debt" owed to, who sets the interest rates - and who should be negotiating lower rates on historic borrowing at a time of virtually zero interest rates, etc.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. wee folding bike
    Member

    gembo…

    Checks trouser leg. Nope, not a Mason and you know my real name which would never let me into a lodge in Scotland. Also never donated any cash to any university. I'd be happy to support the Uni Cafe which will be 100 years old next year.

    The first course were sympathetic but said no. I managed to talk round the second one. He then went on to get a 1st and various other bits and bobs along the way. Most importantly he now has a Brompton. It's not the right colour but you can't win them all.

    The BGE till S3 doesn't happen in all schools. I know it's supposed to but in the wild west many are still doing option choices at the end of S2 like they always did.

    My boys' school is more complex. They make a subject choice at the end of S2 and then a further selection at the end of S3. Since their big brother left it the school has closed the computing dept. This appears to be a choice, not a budgetary thing. As it turns out neither of them is too bothered and look to be more music/art inclined. That's why I'm sitting in what used to be the garage and is now the conservatoire.

    As well as the piano, recorders, harmonicas, melodica, drum kit, Stylophone etc there is now my mid life crisis. At 50 I've taken up the electric guitar. It's a not very spendy Yamaha Pacifica but I've been having a lot of fun with it for the last month or so.

    Boys vetoed me getting plectrums emblazoned with the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    haven't followed all of this, but, at Edinburgh admissions done by admissions administrators, not academic staff.

    also worth noting that requirements are usually minimum. eg we actually recruit well above what is supposedly the minimu. or so i am told.

    social sciences and humanities don't do second year entry, but sciences may.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    @ wfb was that a Rolling Stones reference(?)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. wee folding bike
    Member

    Bother. No. I wish it had been. Boys say I might be allowed Scooby Doo ones.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Guitar-Picks-Christian-Plectrums/dp/B01K1ZII2U

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    How about

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEITH-RICHARDS-signature-stamped-plectrum-guitar-pick-picks-GUITAR-LEGEND-series-/271940521792

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo, "I do not recognise all of crowriver's account. I do not deny it, I just do not recognise all of it. "

    Not saying this is universal. Schools in the suburbs and in more rural areas seem to do better at balancing things out. In my experience of visiting several different secondaries in the city, speaking to teachers, depute heads, etc. what I stated above is the case.

    "On the education front, the first three years of secondary are broad general education there is narrowing, more than in standard grades but less than in o grade as I forgot to say one of my seven was arithmetic. "

    Yes, the S1/S2 is very broad, and A Good Thing. S3 onwards things narrow. I did O Levels in Englandshire before doing Highers in Scotlandshire. Back then one was expected to do 8 O Levels if in the top stream. One was English Language, which I sat a year early: the Old English equivalent of Old Scottish Arithmetic. Then English Literature along with another 6 the following year.

    Not sure how N5 stack up against the old O Levels but I do know that several schools in Edinburgh are switching from 8 subjects at S4 to 7 or 6.

    "I have various sixth year studies certificates"

    I flunked out of SYS English: it really was like the first year of a degree course in English.

    "Of the ten young women she is the only one who went to a comprehensive school. I find this more telling than a discussion about curricula..."

    Indeed. :-(

    @wfb, "My boys' school is more complex. They make a subject choice at the end of S2 and then a further selection at the end of S3."

    Sounds similar to the school my eldest will attend in August. 18 subjects in S1/2 (BGE); then choose 8 options within 14 subjects at S3; then 7 N5 subjects at S4; 5 Highers at S5; then either 4 subjects at S6 (mix of Highers, Advanced Highers) unless doing 3 Advanced Highers in which case only 3 subjects.

    However, this is a new curriculum phase, as the model until recently was to make 8 choices at end of S2, carried through to N4/5... Seems to be a trend in state schools in fair Edina.

    All clear now? :-)

    P.S.:- It is a good school, we are in the catchment, but it's the RC rather than Non-denom school.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. wee folding bike
    Member

    I settled for some with a drawing of a 'gator on them and assorted marbled ones.

    I can do a C major scale, two octaves ascending and descending. Most of the time,

    The next bit of the book is the CAGED method.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. wee folding bike
    Member

    crowriver,

    I don't know about other subjects but in biology there isn't that much difference in content from the SG. I still have a stack of SG books. I need to pick and choose which bits to use a little but most of it still works.

    They can get up to 20% of the marks from their assignment before they even go into the exam. In SG they had an investigation booklet to complete. Originally that made up 1/3 of the grade but the was reduced when it was found that almost everyone got a 1 for that section. The assignment seems a bit better in terms of the spread of marks.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    Keef's life was changed by open tuning. Just using five strings.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. gembo
    Member

    @weefolding bike, I was doing the Nat 5 biology exam for 2016 the other night with my son. He was trying to figure out an answer he had wrong but couldn't see why. He was adding a thousand cells every half hour instead of doubling the number. This was an arithmetic question sneaked into a biology exam.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "Of the ten young women she is the only one who went to a comprehensive school. I find this more telling than a discussion about curricula..."

    I must admit I often find it odd that we critisise the private system because those kids generally do better.

    Instead of criticising, why don't we just do some of what they do, sure the state system will never be able to offer the same class sizes, but that can't be all of the advantage.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "but that can't be all of the advantage"

    No, but it helps.

    Many, many factors, but money per pupil helps - can lead to more teachers/lower class sizes.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. gembo
    Member

    @balldycyclist, my good pal went to Edinburgh academy said the classes were same size. Prof John hattie's says class size has no effect size (I think because small classes often in areas of deprivation).

    There are children a plenty in places like wester hailes who are clever, up until now few have gone to university. Equality of opportunity is what John Swinney is seeking. Though not sure all of this can be cracked by schools alone.

    There is a minor industry in independent sector of acquiring extra time in examinations.

    the private schools seem to have longer days, so do more actual work and plenty homework. I think Prof Hattie sees no effect size for either Length of school day or homework certainly in primary school but I am thinking more time spent on task and more practice of the task are both good ways to improve at the task?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. wee folding bike
    Member

    That doubling question turns up a lot. Once you've seen it there shouldn't be any problem the next time it shows up.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. wee folding bike
    Member

    We've always had calculations.

    In the SG they were identified as problem solving and if you looked at the right hand side of the page you could tell if a question was problem solving or knowledge and understanding. The marks were in separate columns for each kind.Adding up took twice as long as it should because you had to do both kinds.

    We have to do averages, percentages, ratios and graphs. We join the dots on line graphs, I think chemistry do too. Physics would be showing a mathematical relationship so they use line of best fit. Averages are always mean, nothing fancy like median or mode.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. LaidBack
    Member

    "IF the UK 'refuses to pay' (or, as some Tory politicians are saying, demands a rebate) that will send an interesting message to whoever is in charge of Scotland's negotiations for DevoExtra or an Independence settlement."

    The message I take from this 'floated' idea is the Eton boys and girls think they can walk out of Cafe EU without paying for their meal. Then go back in the next week expecting a discount.
    European media has noted this. Scottish media should question how Holyrood can expect to do any deals with such people. Gaining people's trust is a powerful negotiating tool. Instead they prefer to use threats more than suggested 'wishes for best outcomes'.
    Could you imagine T May saying we want Scotland and Ireland to trade and be comfortable with their more pro European identities? A real politician would try to bridge these gaps and let things evolve. T May is probably only a stop gap one though.

    Late night Kindle reading. http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/03/14/border-crossing-2/

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. gembo
    Member

    Yes @weefolding bike, one of the points of the past papers is teasing out these things, clever boy but quite fixed in his mindset? He had an 8 bit binary number where his answer was 9 digits. So he just knocked one digit off instead of maybe thinking he had it wrong. This was in computing so that is another point back. These one pointers might make the difference

    He has his drama exam today, he is Arthur Birling from an Inspector Calls. Pretty good at that too.

    We had the pleasure of watching Alastair Sim in the movie of the play. George Cole, (Arthur Daley) his ward had a small part too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Backing for breaking up the UK is now double the 23 per cent recorded in 2012 when the first independence campaign got under way – and one point above the result of that vote.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/indyref2-poll-finds-support-for-independence-at-high-of-46-1-4392203

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. nobrakes
    Member

    Having had both my kids in state and private schools, it has become apparent to me that class size and how much you pay is pretty much irrelevant. The only thing that matters is quality of teaching and that, alas, is a crap shoot regardless of which path you go down. My son really struggled in state primary school because his teacher did her best to destroy him. We moved him to a private school and he flourished - for a while.

    Teachers most places don't like kids outside 2 standard deviations which my son most definitely is (he was teaching S6 kids at Heriots how to do problem solving maths when we was 9 for example). Keeping him engaged at school has been a struggle because most teachers cant or wont keep him occupied. My daughter went into private from the start and it was no good for her, but she is now flourishing in the same local state primary that my son withered in (different management and teachers - a completely different school now). She likewise struggles with engagement but like her brother finds her focus in music.

    Most private schools don't offer their money's worth in my opinion. Management has been in my experience completely uninterested in helping us solve the issues we have had with our kids in what we call an education system - with one notable exception - St Mary's Music School secondary (primary, not so keen on) where my son now studies. Luckily its grant assisted and based on merit alone. The kids there are all pretty much self motivated hard workers and the teaching is geared around that. It's a long day (8.30 - 5) because a lot of music has to be crammed in as well, but the kids are very much expected to get on with stuff and be fairly independent. It seems to work quite well.

    CfE has in most cases I have seen been used as a way of making kids look great and ticking boxes but has meant very little to either of my kids in terms of actual real benefit. I don't doubt its intention but I think the implementation has been dubious in many schools.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I've had experience of public and private systems too. In the public system my aspiration was set to factory worker, and in the private, whatever you want to achieve.

    It seemed to me that the very clever, and the very disruptive get all of the resource. Those in the middle were left to fend for themselves.

    I was weak at maths and chemistry; in the private system this was addressed with extra maths tuition after school (teacher didn't get paid for this extra work,), and putting me in the chemistry class below ours too. Still failed chemistry, but every effort was made to try and help. In maths went from a 27% prelim result to missing an A by 1% in the exam.

    I now work in a profession which would have never been possible had that effort not been put in. The state system(in my experience) fails those who need a little bit of nurture.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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