CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Permeable infrastructure - yes please

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    I've been riding through some of Hackney's - somewhat controversial - permeable infrastructure (like this junction here and this ) of late and wondering if we'll ever see anything like this in Edinburgh.

    I'm not suggesting it as an alternative to decent protected cycle lanes along arterial roads. But in addition, in more residential areas. Something like this would be ideal in some of the south Edinburgh neighbourhoods between on either side of Newington/Mayfield for example.

    While we do have some examples in Edinburgh, which work well, they tend to be isolated. These have been put in in a planned, wholesale fashion, across a neighbourhood.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  2. neddie
    Member

    Totally agree SRD.

    Would love to have something like this (e.g. mini-Holland) for the Marchmont / Grange / Blackford areas

    Posted 6 years ago #

  3. Stickman
    Member

    https://twitter.com/daisynmurphy/status/1043501742388850688

    "Today we met some incredible, passionate people who have enabled true transformation. When political leadership, positive activism and LA expertise come together, magic happens! Thanks to Claire, Clyde, @deekinstowPaul & Chris for an inspiring tour of Walthamstow #MiniHolland"

    Yet. Another. Study. Tour.

    Will it lead to anything other than a consultation?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  4. wingpig
    Member

    Is there anywhere up here which has more than one in any area apart from the wee culs-des-sacs behind Porty High Street?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    https://twitter.com/CyclingEdin/status/1043787035532820480

    Posted 6 years ago #

  6. PS
    Member

    Ideal for the New Town too.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    @chdot I just want boring old bollards. planters are extra.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    Actually planters are probably cheaper!

    Certainly quicker and allow for experimentation/fine tuning.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  9. acsimpson
    Member

    @winpig. The bulk of East Craigs is highly permiable on foot or bike. Yet cars can only access it via Maybury Drive.

    Although it was built this way rather than being a later change.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  10. stiltskin
    Member

    Craigleith Hill Avenue is surely an example of this. I'm assuming it was originally a normal junction.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  11. newtoit
    Member

    Ellen's Glen Road is an effective example. Much better now that they've put permanent bollards in rather than a concrete block that was moved across every other week by otherwise law abiding motorists.

    More like that would be very handy.

    Aren't there a few in the New Town/Broughton, around Gayfield square etc?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  12. PS
    Member

    There's Cornwallis Place/Summer Bank at the east side of the New Town and Moray Place/Great Stuart Street, Glenfinlas Street/St Colme Street and the south end of Wemyss Place at the west side. Most of these are effective and useful.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  13. Rob
    Member

    I used to live in Craigentinny. The area between Craigentinny Avenue, Wakefield Avenue and Moira Terrace seemed perfect for converting to cul-de-sacs and crescents. At busy times those streets become rat runs for people avoiding the queue at the end of Wakefield Avenue but they don't add any extra capacity to the overall system since the bottleneck is further on at the junction with Sir Harry Lauder Road.

    I contacted councillors about the idea and mostly got generic "I've passed this to my travel person" responses. The best response was essentially "I'd love to but then everyone would want it".

    Posted 6 years ago #

  14. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Best example in my lifetime of somewhere that was transformed by the installation of a simple gate was where I grew up in Braehead.

    Traffic used to bypass the then Barnton Roundabout, by turning right off Whitehouse Road into Braehead Grove, then right onto Braehead Drive, then left onto Braehead Avenue and join the Queensferry Road 100 yds or so east of the new Cramond Brig.

    You wouldn't believe the insane amount of traffic that came through the streets at rush hour. Indeed, it was known by the kids as busy time and many weren't allowed on certain streets between 4-6 (prime post-school play time!!). The traffic invariably sped along the residential streets only to join a queue at the bottom of Braehead Avenue.

    After years of pestering, the Council finally installed a simple gate at the bottom of Braehead Avenue. Rat-running traffic dropped immediately to zero. A key was given to houses on the North side of Queensferry Road so that they didn't have to turn right into their drive ways across the Queeensferry Road. However, despite them asking for this facility, none of them use it. They all just turn right across Queensferry Road. That's just the life you choose when you buy a house on Queensferry Road!

    Such a good example if anyone wants one to quote to Councillors!

    Posted 6 years ago #

  15. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Oxgangs Farm Drive was, for years and years, not so much a rat run as a de facto main road between Oxgangs Road North and Redford Road. We used to use it all the time when I were young and all this were fields.

    It's been bollarded off for many years, though some enterprising (or careless) drivists took potshots at the bollards occasionally and sent them all skewiff. They seem to have stood the test of time since then though.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  16. acsimpson
    Member

    I don't know how it was used before but I would guess that Dechmont road hasn't always been a cul-de-sac.

    Castle Street is a bit of an example and there is also a few on the roads south of Moray Place.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  17. SRD
    Moderator

    they also have lots of on street bike storage here:

    "We have installed Cyclehoop cycle hangars on a number of streets to accommodate demand for secure residential cycle parking. They are half the length of a parking bay and can store up to six bicycles.

    The cycle hangars can be rented for £60 per space, with a £25 deposit. Hackney subsidise the rental cost by 50%, so you pay £30 per year."

    Posted 6 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    Castle Street is a bit of an example and there is also a few on the roads south of Moray Place.

    Castle Street is a dropped kerb, isn't it? So I guess it counts.

    I'd exclude Forres Street as it has a kerb and I wouldn't fancy either stopping to lift the bike or getting a kerb-hop wrong on Queen Street.

    I'd also exclude East Scotland Street Lane/Scotland Street as they screwed that up by sticking a high kerb in a few years ago, which is infuriating on a designated quiet route. You can ride it, but it's sketchy, especially from the Scotland Street side - I've seen a few folk come a cropper on the high kerb so have always lifted when going that way.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  19. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    The Forres St kerb makes Salisbury Crags look like a dropped kerb does it not?

    Posted 6 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    “they screwed that up by sticking a high kerb”

    Local pressure I believe - to discourage cycling across pavement.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  21. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Lynedoch Place

    High Riggs

    Craiglockhart Rd Nth (this one the council actually remade as permeable after sealing it off with railings before)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  22. PS
    Member

    Local pressure I believe - to discourage cycling across pavement.

    So I understand, but presumably there never used to be a pavement there? I suppose it's better than a chicane, but...

    The Forres St kerb makes Salisbury Crags look like a dropped kerb does it not?

    I understand it's going to feature in Danny MacAskill's next video. ;-)

    Posted 6 years ago #

  23. acsimpson
    Member

    Castle Street has a dropped kerb but as far as I know it wouldn't be legal to cycle over the princes street pavement. Although perhaps as you would be accessing land on the other side where it is permissible to ride would make it OK.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  24. acsimpson
    Member

    It's not clear why Weymss Place, Great Stuart Street and Glenfinlass Street were all made fully permeable while Forress was pedestrian only. Weymss is definitely the best of the 4 though.

    Charlotte Square came later but is also permeable at it's north-eastern corner.

    Posted 6 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    Is permeable the right word?

    I know it’s the correct word, but opaque to most people?

    Any suggestions?

    ‘Bollards to free movement of motor vehicles’ is perhaps too long...

    Posted 6 years ago #

  26. PS
    Member

    Good news - a drop kerb cut-through has been installed at the top of Forres Street, just at the left hand edge of the box junction as you drop down from North Charlotte Street.

    Pedestrian-permitting, this will allow cyclists to head straight on at the junction, down to Moray Place and thence to Heriot Row, avoiding having to run the Albyn Place/Queen Street gauntlet for the 150m stretch to the top of Wemyss Street.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  27. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    i went that way just a couple of hours ago but didn’t notice a new drop kerb. I'll look out for it next time. The new arrangement at the top of Wemyss Place seems to be finished but is blocked by traffic cones for no apparent reason.

    Posted 5 years ago #

  28. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I was originally going to post this in the Severe weather warning thread where the posts below originated, but it maybe makes more sense here, or possibly in the News on LTNs? thread.

    From a month ago:

    @ejstubbs: If by the Dreghorn Link roundabout you mean the modal filter at the top of Oxgangs Farm Drive then I think I remember that going in while I've been here, which would have been since 1998 when I first moved to Edinburgh

    Me: Oxgangs Farm Drive was stopped up in the early 1990s I think, no later, but maybe earlier.

    @Morningsider: I remember during the late 1980's that LRT route 17 ran up Oxgangs Farm Drive, turning left at the top to reach it's terminus on Redford Road.

    Well, I took the time (last month!) to ask CEC about it and they've just responded. Oxgangs Farm Drive was stopped up in September 1993 (the TRO was approved in June that year). CEC no longer has the records of the rationale for the TRO, but importantly, they also said that since 2019 they have received no requests – none, zero – for re-opening it.

    Posted 10 months ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    Good bit of research

    Slightly surprised ppl still asking

    None since 2029, Covid benefit?

    Posted 10 months ago #

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