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“role of CCE in local campaigning” (Spokes asks)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Got this -

    For the next bulletin, we intend the supplement to be examples of 'local cycle campaigning' – this includes individuals or groups, some involved in spokes, others quite separate – in other words a real mix of the kind of campaigning activity going on in Edinburgh and the Lothians, where people are trying locally to get things changed for the better for getting about by bike.

    I asked for some idea of what might be wanted.

    CCE has certainly been effective in rousing support e.g. for the Roseburn demo, for passing on ideas and facilitating discussion between participants some of whom then contact councillors, etc - i.e. it is not just a sounding-board for the disgruntled but it results in action.

    Possibly could also include a photo of one of your breakfasts if you have one?

    Don’t think latter is good idea. Maybe the event that was organised at the West End?

    Will be mentioning a book.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    It's the engagement. Spokes, to a non-member, seems more of a passive informant. No matter how incensed one may be at a matter reported in a tiny paragraph hidden somewhere in a distant column of their printed news-leaflet, there's nowhere to clarify/discuss there and then with the similarly-concerned; maybe Spokes do this using the electric telephone or have regular face-to-face meetings. Here, if there's an upcoming consultation, people nudge each other. If there's a new bit of weird road, someone goes along or past it and reports back. Spokes needs a live internet forum or similar.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. Rosie
    Member

    I would include the event for Zhi Min Soh. I've written something about the Roseburn Cycle Route Support Group and included a bit about the ride to Roseburn which was organised via here.

    @wingpig - Spokes did used to include a forum but it wasn't used so they chucked it. There's Facebook however the discussions there are a bit hit and miss. I often direct readers to the CCE forum for discussion.

    If you do want to get into a discussion/action about a particular bit of infra you could email spokes (spokesATspokes.org.uk) to get into a detailed/technical exchange with whoever has taken it up in the Planning Group.

    Of course you could always join (no donation required) and then you'd get regular updates about specific issues...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The primary school bike buses are a big deal too. Not restricted to CCE but a great source of ideas and people.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    event for Zhi Min Soh

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    “Spokes did used to include a forum but it wasn't used so they chucked it.”

    Before my time - I’d rather I knew it was there but it was already moribund. Did anyone moderate or support it? If there’s a lesson of CCE it’s that it needs someone to flag things and stimulate debate.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    “If you do want to get into a discussion/action about a particular bit of infra you could email spokes (spokesATspokes.org.uk) to get into a detailed/technical exchange with whoever has taken it up in the Planning Group.“

    Emailing unknown strangers is not that attractive an option. Spokes really is the faceless Bike Lobby.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    “Spokes really is the faceless Bike Lobby.”

    Don’t think that’s really true.

    It’s certainly the case that the Spokes website doesn’t list key people or ‘office bearers’ - presumably they have some sort of structure to get a bank account!

    But people going to Spokes meetings will see the key players.

    Spokes isn't a charity, because a lot of what it does is regarded as political, though many charities do a lot of campaigning in a political arena.

    Spokes has always decided not to employ people and become more like the London Cycle Campaign. This is probably the correct decision for the organisation that has been around for over 40 years with a remarkable level of consistency and continuity involving a fairly small group of people - some very long serving.

    There are real downsides having organisations wholly reliant on volunteers. One very insidious reality is because of the whole ‘professionalisation’ of the voluntary sector where maintaining staff and infrastructure can (sometimes) become more important than the reason they exist.

    Such organisations can develop an unhealthy relationship with funders (eg Scottish Government). That isn’t a dig at Sustrans, which seems to manage a strange position of being (effectively) an arm of government and (appearing to be) wholly independent.

    Worse is that organisations without staff can (all too easily) be regarded as irrelevant, inferior or even a threat.

    Spokes has largely avoided that and is seen to be a reliable provider of ‘facts’ and information.

    The fact that such diligence hasn’t always changed the agenda/policies is not the fault of Spokes.

    For instance the Picardy Place fiasco is happening in spite of a well designed alternative from Sustrans alongside campaigning from Spokes, the Cockburn and others (inc lots of CCE posters).

    Nothing is perfect, even CCE.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. Rosie
    Member

    Not quite "faceless". Spokes holds stalls for instance.

    In its early days it was much more proactive at getting cycling on the agenda, so it would hold demos and rallies. You can see some of the current faces looking youthful at such events.

    Now cycling is on the agenda it is far more reactive i.e. making submissions on the next bit of infra or analysing the budget. The demo/rally part is done by PoP, and the CCE as well.

    It does have clout, i.e. is treated seriously by government/council authorities and politician.

    For cycling infra to happen it has to be taken up by bold politicians eg Boris Johnson as London mayor. Lesley Macinnes looks hopeful - I do hope she gets to cut a ribbon or two before her term in office ends.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. SRD
    Moderator

    Yes, I know they have stalls, but it’s not particularly easy to identify who the right person to contact is, or get much a feel for Spokes the organisation.

    I’m sure chdot is right about it ‘working’.

    I’m just saying that telling people to email ‘spokes’ will only attract a certain kind of person. Rather like the newsletter and website.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. Rosie
    Member

    Well we've had this discussion before and I do agree that other campaigning groups have more of a presence to the less committed cycling activist or potential activist (like cycle routes for "the less confident cyclist"). That does seem to be generated by articles renewed frequently on a website with comments below.

    We are looking into re-jigging the website - I've bumped the survey if you want to submit to yet another consultation.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    I agree that Spokes is far from transparent - largely due to being created long before the internet age.

    It can be emailed. In the past the only point of contact was an answermachine in a basement.

    People go on Twitter to complain about not being able register on CCE!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    @rosie I agree. we've had this discussion before. i'm not entirely sure about your analogy in your last comment, but do respect those of you who work so hard for Spokes. I just worry about the sustainability of the model - and spokes' work and reputation are too important to be lost. but we have also had that discussion.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. davecykl
    Member

    I do have an awful lot of respect for Spokes, and in particular, that small number of people who have been doing it with great commitment for literally decades, and who helped kindle my enthusiasm for cycle campaigning, way back when I was growing up in cycle-unfriendly small-town Scotland, and who sent me a veritable treasure trove of inspirational Spokes leaflet back issues, after I found their address in the Green Consumer Guide...

    When I moved to the big city (a different one), that in turn inspired me to set up a cycle campaign there (as there was not one at that time), and we had (and continue to have) some successes, although facing a very different and much more problematic transport/planning environment there than exists in Edinburgh.

    We had open monthly meetings, as that seemed to us the natural way to do things; combining "serious" campaign talk and scrutiny of plans and collating responses, with a bit of "state of the world" chat, and then more general banter in the pub afterwards. By having regular meetings, in a known central location (also easily accessible by public transport if the weather was foul, or your bike was kaput), it was easy for potential new activists to get involved. We also had an email discussion list and website since the mid-90s, with a not too shabby number of subscribers, considering the period.

    Eventually, for [...reasons...] that city had chewed me up entirely and sucked all the energy out of me, and so I made the move to Spokestown, but I'm afraid to say that the modus operandi of Spokes came as quite a culture shock: I'm sure I can't be the only person to have thought that something that Britain seems to lack, and has lacked for all of my lifetime, is much of any genuine sense of "community" (in the past, people may have found their local community because they tended not to move around so much, or through a greater proportion of people being involved with religious groups and their meetings, etc), and so nowadays, in a far less "settled" society we somehow have to try to create our own communities instead.

    The regular rhythm of known monthly meetings had provided those accessible entry points into new communities, but the fact that Spokes only seemed to have two meetings a year, and with no social aspect to them, seemed (I'm sorry to say) somewhat cold and unwelcoming. Yes, the talks are always interesting, and the question and answer sessions always valuable, but there never seemed to be any way to become more involved or even just get to know other people there.

    I realise now (but didn't then) that the (only?) way to enter the Spokes fortress is to tick the working groups boxes on the membership form, but that more formal setup does put much more of a barrier to entry for new people to get involved, and especially for people who might want to initially come along informally a couple of times first to see how best they can be involved. The fact that meetings also seem to take place on irregular schedules and at people's homes all over the city (and often not easy to get to by public transport on a rainy night) can also be quite a strong disincentive and a bit intimidating. Has any thought ever been given as to whether a regularly-booked meeting room at, say, The Melting Pot in Rose St could instead be used, as that may be more accessible to and welcoming for potential new activists?

    The great thing that CCE has done is that it has created a community: it allows cyclists to share information (and then act on it), network to find out that there are in fact a lot of like-minded people out there, and (of course) just blether, and that it has spun off some real world coffee shop or pub meetups as well.

    So, CCE is not Spokes, although there is obvious overlap of people, but it is perhaps the more touchy-feely outreachy arm that Spokes somewhat lacks?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. Rosie
    Member

    @davecykl - Spokes in its youth did used to have monthly pub meetings and I do wish we had general chat and policy meetings, not to mention socials. When we have had socials over the last couple of years only active volunteers have been invited.

    We have 3 public meetings per year and also 3 mailouts. Mailouts are a bit more sociable. But no, it is not a going-to-the-pub afterwards vibe.

    Spokes is opaque. To know it you have to be in the Resources and/or Planning Group. In my experience the talk is mostly about immediate tasks and projects at hand, with a little about policy and latest news. There are other "task" groups like the maps groups, the traffic counters, the stalls. But that means only a handful of people meeting for a practical task.

    I can see that can be off-putting to people who don't want to be immediately issued with a task when showing interest.

    We have had occasional infrastructure walks - i.e. checking over a proposed route in a group. Those are interesting, positive and fun, and a good entry-point, but they don't happen often.

    I agree that the CCE Forum does the political and even philosophical conversation around cycling as well as the banter and running jokes, and sociable meet ups.

    That's how it rocks and (my philosophy) it's better than nothing and work with what you've got.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    “Spokes is opaque. To know it you have to be in the Resources and/or Planning Group.”

    Yes, which suits some people and realistically that’s fine.

    “I agree that the CCE Forum does the political and even philosophical conversation around cycling as well as the banter and running jokes, and sociable meet ups.”

    That sentence covers a whole range of (overlapping) things and is part of the fun. Some people have left due to lack of focus/thread drift!

    The social meet-ups PY or pub tend to be (mostly) the same people each time. Quite a few have met because of CCE and hang out/ride/plot as it suits them.

    Attracting/engaging new people is not something I think CCE is any better at than Spokes.

    All facets of life.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. davecykl
    Member

    @Rosie, thanks for your reply. Just to be clear, I wasn't meaning to be critical, but was just chipping in with my own experience (following similar comments from other people), and a couple of potential suggestions.

    I really do have genuine respect for everyone who keeps Spokes going behind the scenes (I am a nominal/occasional member of the Planning Group, but being more weather-sensitive than I used to be, I am afraid I am much less likely to be expeditioning out to an unknown part of the city on a dark and rainy night, unfortunately), and I am very glad that they/you can and do dedicate that time to it.

    I suppose what we have ended up with are overlapping Venn diagrams of Spokes, CCE and PoP, all of which serve useful purposes, and which play to or rely on the different skills and interests of the different people involved, but ultimately, we are all working towards the same aims, and, crucially, they do indeed overlap, and we are all part of the same wider cycling activist community.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. algo
    Member

    Sorry late to this but yes as @IWRATS points out - the bike buses have various CCE volunteers and I regularly mobilise folk from here and get excellent advice. AS @wingpig says - this is the active engagement this forum brings.

    The Roseburn ride, the event fro Zho Min Soh (mentioned I know), and the Leith walk human bollard protest were all replete with members of this forum who all engaged actively here and organised well.

    From my perspective, there's a tone here of welcoming camaraderie and frivolity which allows people to engage both seriously and irreverently. There is real compassion shown,
    genuine help offered and serious, sometimes robust, debate. Pretty much every week I engage meaningfully and physically with someone from this forum in some way - it's not just a faceless collection of people online, everyone here has a physical form which presents itself...

    Somewhat hypocritical as I rarely post anything these days, but I wanted to say my piece as I call on support from the forum very often....

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. Rosie
    Member

    @davecykl - No problem. Also my "better than nothing" should read "a lot better than nothing".

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. LaidBack
    Member

    For me Spokes were the first indication that Edinburgh was a city which had ability to influence policy (around 1985). Having been born in Glasgow and had a huge road cut through local Victoria Park I was glad to see this city had another vision.
    I appreciate the fact too that the maps were available in the pre-internet age. Meetings today are still larger than most 'minority interest' groups. (Yes I know we shouldn't be a minority!)
    Tech wise the fact meetings are streamed and flagged on Twitter has helped spread ideas.

    It's good in a way that we have CCE, POP and Spokes. (probably mentioned earlier but been offline a while!)

    Spokes also get stalls into events (eg Martin at The Napier University EV event). No one group can do it all.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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