CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Electric assist / pedelec laws

(11 posts)
  • Started 12 years ago by Smudge
  • Latest reply from neddie
  • poll: Should the electric bicycle laws be updated...
    increase the speed limit to 20mph : (3 votes)
    33 %
    Increase the speed limit to 20mph and remove the power limit : (4 votes)
    44 %
    Introduce a "sub-moped" class for assisted bicycles allowing up to 30mph : (1 votes)
    11 %
    Leave well alone, that way madness lies....! : (1 votes)
    11 %

    8 votes

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  1. Smudge
    Member

    With it looking like the powers that be are finally seriously(ish) considering reducing 30mph limits to 20mph, I wondered... is the time right to amend the electric bike legislation to allow a top speed of 20mph (to match the lowest speed limit) rather than the current 15mph?

    Practically it shouldn't make a great deal of difference but the perception of people who don't understand the concept/reality of average speed (appears to be the majority) would be that they could now "keep up with traffic". Hopefully making them much more attractive to current car users.

    Also, given that most policemen do not carry dynamometers around with them, and power limits are notoriously difficult (near impossible) to Police, should we drop the "250w" legal power limit outright and just concentrate on the performance?

    Equally, I wondered if there should be a sub-moped class, allowing more power/speed?
    Just as an example, off the top of my head: must be a bicycle with electric assist added, users must wear a cycle or motorcycle helmet, bicycle must be in a roadworthy condition (eg tread on the tyres, brakes which work!), max speed 30mph... keeps it simple, and simple to enforce, but attractive to developers/experimenters?

    Or am I a maniac who would bring whispering death to thousands of innocent pedestrians whenever they exercise their God given right to step off the pavement without looking..?(he says in daily hate parody mode!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  2. Min
    Member

    I didn't know they were restricted though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that they are restricted to a speed much less than the absolute minimum that motorists are allowed to drive at!

    I am a fan of electric bikes so I think an increase to 20mph sounds like a great idea to me. I think 30 is too much though, it is too fast for cycle paths IMO.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    A fit amateur cyclist can generate more than 250W... and on a ride that weighs a lot less. I don't think they're any quieter than a pedal and chain bike - perhaps they should be treated in terms of power-to-weight ratio, rather than pure power.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  4. cb
    Member

    I believe the law also restricts power only to be available when the pedal is turned, i.e. simple twist throttle controls are affectively banned on new bikes.
    (Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong on this).

    That could be pretty restrictive to a weak cyclist trying to do a hill start. Perhaps an update to the rules could take this problem into account. E.g. a small amount of get-you-started power available without pedalling?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  5. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The current edition of A to B magazine has quite a lot to say about electric bikes, and the legislation pertaining thereto. I think the UK has a different set of rules from Dutchland, where we do allow throttle without pedalling.

    But the blanket law on power output is my main gripe because it makes electrically assisted load bikes less attractive to develop -- and I mean carrying the heavy needs-a-car stuff. Not everyone can manage to carry a metric tonne on their bike like Dave Holladay!

    Trouble is, if you deregulate power output without capping top speed, you create a class of baby motorcyclists who, battery technology notwithstanding, can go at 15mph or 20mph or 30mph all the time, not just in bursts. How should you ensure their safety and training on the road? When does a bicycle with a wee motor on it become an electric scooter that requires a motorbike helmet and insurance and CBT? And might you create parity with infernal combustion powered mopeds of 49cc?

    Posted 12 years ago #

  6. Morningsider
    Member

    cb - I think twist and go throttles are allowed on electrically assisted bikes as long as they meet the power, weight and speed restrictions set out in the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle Regulations 1983. This means a rider would not need a helmet, licence, tax disc and insurance.

    However, the manufacturers of such bikes would have to get a European Certificate of Conformity or individual pre-registration assessment by the UK Department for Transport before selling such a bike (not required for other legal electric bikes in the UK). Good for riders of such bikes - less so for the manufacturers who have to jump through lots of hoops to get their bike approved for sale and use.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  7. alibali
    Member

    In the UK, mopeds are restricted to 28mph (45km/h, older ones are allowed 31mph). They are restricted to 50cc capacity, but (AFAIK) restricted on power output (probably for enforement reasons).

    In effect, an electric bike capable of 30mph would just be a moped by other means and I think Arellcat is right to expect CBT/Helmets/Insurance/Tax/Plates to be part of the picture.

    Posted 12 years ago #

  8. Dave
    Member

    You beat me to it - I was going to say that the simple reason electric bikes are restricted is just to stop them from being mopeds.

    Lifting it to 20mph would make sense to me, since it's hard to argue that you are in more danger moving at the speed of traffic. But I suspect it would be hard to do with such low wattage motors...

    Posted 12 years ago #

  9. Smudge
    Member

    I think the power limit is a bit of a red herring, currently if the batteries are up to it you can ride at 15mph as long as you want, more power = better acceleration but worse battery life (if you use the power obviously) but as long as there is a speed limit it makes little practical difference other than the ability as mentioned to move heavier loads (or people!) and deal with steeper hills.
    My other problem with the power limit is why have a rule which is very nearly unenforceable? Those of us who remember the original 12hp 125 limit will know that whilst the capacity limit was generally broadly observed (relatively easy to check), the power limit was ignored by significant numbers, resulting in highly strung 100mph+ "learner" bikes...
    I'd be prepared to put a fairly large wager down that most Policemen, traffic or otherwise are unaware of the detail of the law and even those who are lack the equipment and training required to measure the power (both peak and continuous of course) of an electric motor.

    I really do believe that a 20mph assist limit and removal of the power limits would be a progressive move, encouraging wider use (and hopefully convincing some people that pedalling isn't actually *that* bad!) and moving more people out of cars, especially in the hillier parts of our fair country.

    The "sub-moped" suggestion, I confess, was a random thought to stir discussion ;-) As it stands however it does seem slightly odd that an old 50cc (or smaller) clip on cyclemotor on a bicycle requires a licence, VED, Insurance, MOT, Helmet etc whilst an electric version requires none of them. Not a problem for 99.9% of the population though (unless there are any closet velo-solex/ cyclemotor fans lurking on here!)

    Posted 12 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "unless there are any closet velo-solex/ cyclemotor fans lurking on here!"

    Bound to be!!

    Posted 12 years ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    Was anyone aware of this happening:?

    DfT: Pedal cycles converted to ‘twist and go’ exempt from type approval

    http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/dft-pedal-cycles-converted-twist-go-exempt-type-approval/

    Only applies if you convert a previously-used "ordinary" bicycle.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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