CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
sticky@nevelbell I was left wondering the same this morning!
Two complete failures to read the road ahead (I can only assume) resulting in aborted overtakes.
1. While in primary heading into a pinch point (traffic island)
2. While in primary behind other traffic (possibly a case of Filter Hulk or You-Should-Be-In-The-Cycle-Lane-So-I-Can-Box-You-In-man)
"often after the green man has come on"
This is true at various junctions, also when green is on for crossing traffic.
The police won't do anything, drivers are unlikely to 'start behaving', so the 'best' option is a complete review of all light sequence cycles.
Some are already not adequate for bikes going at 'bike speed', plenty not suitable for pedestrians who aren't 'brisk'.
@fimm - thanks for that link - nicely written. I think choosing either lane causes massive difficulties as it appears to cars that you're going in a different direction and they try to pass you.
@nevelbell - I have to agree - the rain and early darkness seem to make it worse, and I think this seems to happen every year. I've just had the worst two weeks on the bike I can remember in town - often with a child on board. So many incidents I gave up mentioning them here as I'd just sound like a broken record.
The bottom line for me is that all road users make judgements all the time about road and lane position etc. Some of my judgements are wrong when cycling I'll admit, despite trying to cycle well. But even if I were cycling "badly" in the eyes of a car driver - how does that justify them punishing my judgement by putting me and my passengers' lives at risk?
@threefromleith - This is so true!
I have seen drivers racing through red lights pretty much every day this week. They keep getting away with it though so there's no problem, right? Just like speeding, I mean its only 10mph over the limit, no-one is going to care about that are they?
"how does that justify them punishing my judgement by putting me and my passengers' lives at risk?"
Its cultural.
I don't mean that as a cop-out.
It's related to 'but UK residents/drivers are different from those in The Netherlands, Denmark etc.'
BUT
As 'we' (and others) know, the Dutch had a 'moment' when enough of them decided that enough was enough and changed the whole way cars were seen and catered for.
It COULD happen here.
But...
chdot, I'm convinced it WILL happen here and I remain hopeful that we will still be around to see it when it does.
I heard on Twitter that Lesley Hinds was fed up of people talking about "the Netherlands" last night. Her response was "...but this is *Edinburgh*"
About sums it up really.
Missed that on Twitter.
I didn't notice her mentioned much at all.
The question is, does she mean -
1) there's no room for proper infrastructure
2) people in Ed want to drive and shouldn't be discouraged
3) too cold, too wet, too hilly
4) the council that I was elected to run the transport bit of won't do what I want
5) other
Land Rover and Lexus drivers are the worst as reported on BBC R4. This is according to motor insurers where blame can be attributed to the driver in insurance claims.
What type of Land Rover?
Old battered farm vehicle with a border collie in the back?
Or enormous modern 4x4 with blacked-out windows driven by a footballer/footballer's wife?
I think I can guess.
Wouldn't be so quick at giving farmers a pass, Stickman - have had some fairly grim passes from clearly 'working' 4x4s in the countryside.
Pretty hypocritical when they expect utmost care to be taken around their precious livestock when it's on the road.
"
Transport Minister has designs on continental cycling projects
"
@Murun Buchstansang: See cyclist, think horse?
Re. Lesley, I suspect she means that the Netherlands is all set up to do the right thing, but with the best will in the world we are not at that place yet.
I suspect we'll run out of oil or be overtaken by catastrophic climate change before any authority in Scotland moves in timeous manner to emulate (whisper it) "The Netherlands".
Having said that, since we recently reached 1 degree of warning you could say that we have already been overtaken by catastrophic climate change. It's just taking awhile to filter down.
Some real sh!t driving going on, in this here liminal time
Most people don't like comparison. People like to think that their town or country is unique and distinct. My feeling is that experiencing Amsterdam and Copenhagen are important for changing people's minds, but that constantly saying 'on the continent' or 'in Barcelona' is un productive. Yes, rationally it makes sense, but it seems to stir up people's irrational impulses at the same time.
I think you're right, but should we put up with irrationality? Would we just say "flat earth? Oh, ok, if you say so".
Bit fed up tonight, so probably being a bit negative.
Towns and countries are a lot less unique and distinct than many people like to believe. Frequently, folk just don't know that things can be done better - I didn't know about Dutch infrastructure until about 2 years ago when I happened on this forum. Lesley has been to The Netherlands, but I don't think she's internalised the benefits yet.
No, of course not, but I had a colleague, who, when he first arrived just kept saying 'in <another country> we did it this way'. Probably all his suggestions as to how we could improve what we did were very good ones, but it out people's backs up and they stopped listening because every sentence started that way. I suspect that we get the same response if in every meeting we say 'in Amsterdam....' Or 'on the continent'... It is too easy for them to say 'we're not X'. We need to be more sophisticated than this.
"We need to be more sophisticated than this."
True, but if people (eg Leslie Hinds - and politicians generally) are saying 'but this is UK/Scotland/Edinburgh' we need to know what they mean (and/or what they believe).
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like change?
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like really considering 'best practice'?
To what extent is it that people (inc politicians, planners and engineers) don't like being shown to be 'wrong'/'behind the curve'?
How much is there belief/evidence/'fact' that people "here" are 'different'?
To what extent is the law the 'problem'/'excuse'?
'We' know how difficult it is getting things done (and how long it takes!) - due to consultation/TROs.
We are also told that 'elsewhere' road layouts were changed "overnight". This seems to be almost true in New York in recent years (not without objections). Is this because 'laws are different' or politicians/officials are more willing/able to 'experiment' - and/or have better ideas in the first place (see George Street)?
Etc.
Any replies should perhaps go here -
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15492&page=2#post-204388
Other thread -
"I found Lesley Hinds a bit annoying - she seemed more keen to say stuff rather than listen."
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15492&page=2#post-204378
"'just kept saying 'in <another country> we did it this way'"
For another example of that, look how annoying David Hembrow can sound even when you support his message.
A ute with some long scaffolding poles in the back pulled up very close behind a Co-op lorry when they emerged from Annandale Street. The poles were protruding further forward than the front of the bonnet but above the driver's field of probable view and were only a couple of inches away from the lorry. Perhaps th fluora tabard tied to them had been whipped off by the wind.
Walking around Edinburgh with two very elderly people really brings home how crap this place is for pedestrians. Last nights Complete Scumbag award goes to the driver of a red car who thought it appropriate to accelerate towards an elderly man with a stick whilst blasting his horn.
@min that's horrible.
my family was walking home last night on gilmore place, thinking they had avoided the rain, only to get soaked to the skin by drivers accelerating through puddles.
I escorted an elderly shopping-laden lady for ten minutes yesterday who was worried about her ability to withstand the winds.
Drivers offered no quarter. Its almost as if they become subhuman behind the wheel. I truly despair for our species.
A driver of a black BMW appeared to drive at me deliberately at the King's theatre junction the other day.
This: "Drivers offered no quarter. Its almost as if they become subhuman behind the wheel. I truly despair for our species" prompted my memory...
He also had a smug grin on his face, like "I'll teach you a lesson*"
*For being there. On my bike.
As he approached the scene of the collision he had looked down at his speedometer where he thought there were speed cameras. During the routine journey he sent and received several text messages. Some had been using the hands free set, and others using his hands and eyes.”
Looks like you are allowed to use your mobile when driving then! From that report the verdict seems crazy.
As someone pointed out, it wasn't the driver's first court appearance:
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