Blue van man on Mountcastle Drive North this morning. Parked cars either side, speed cushions in the road, naturally as he's passing me he swerves left to make sure he lines up perfectly on the central speed cushion putting his left wheels in exactly the space I was about to occupy, and making sure I'm rather perfectly squashed into the door zone.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Today's rubbish driving...
(11330 posts)- Started 13 years ago by Stepdoh
- Latest reply from fergus
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Posted 11 years ago #
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No bad driving witnessed today, but that's mainly because I'm on a hard taper* before Sunday's jollities...
Saw some truly appalling and aggressive driving from the car yesterday, so if you'v had a crap commute you can console yourself, they're not just anti bike, the muppets are ******s all the time!
*to be read as no cycling at all as I'm on holiday and doing next to no exercise all week! (Unless you count chasing after a 1 year old, actually, can I go back to cycling? It's less strenuous lol)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Looking after a two year old is harder on the knees than Arthurs Seat on a fixed wheel!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Last night, I was absolutley amazed by the insane driving on show in Leith. I was driving(!) eastwards on Great Junction Street when the black 4x4 in front of me closely overtook an (extremely fast) cyclist who then had no problems keeping up. We arrived at the junction with Leith Walk at red lights and the Cyclist pulled in front of the 4x4 into the advanced stop zone. To our amazement the 4x4 waited at red for 20 seconds then proceeded to try and mow down the cyclist; he revved his engine and nudged up right to the rear wheel, then when the cyclist shouted at him to back off the 4x4 pulled past him, proceeded through the red and whizzed away.
I have absolutely no idea what was going on, if there was a previous altercation before I joined the road, but it was probably the worst driving and intimidation I have seen for years.
Posted 11 years ago # -
There's no ASL at that junction at present; presumably the Leith Drive Paving Replacement Scheme will see one installed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Right enough - no ASL indeed (just noticed on GMaps). He must have simply pulled in front of the car.
In that case the driver's insanity was probably justified...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Friend of mine on twitter. She's a lovely lady, very caring, drives to and from somewhere over the bridge (I think) each day she works. About a 45 min drive.
Sure she doesn't mean it to be so, but I find this terrifying. 2 tonnes of car with a half asleep person driving along in the dark. I just want to scream.
Posted 11 years ago # -
A general grrr! for all the selfish driving today. It's dangerous weather drivers - think of others please.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I was thinking that Grange Road would be nice and quiet again for half-term but it didn't stop two selfish scumbags squeezing past me at the pinch point island on Beaufort Road in order to get to the red light a few seconds earlier.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Humm @ArobComp Twitter can be very disturbing https://twitter.com/search?q=falling%20asleep%20wheel&src=typd
I remember my father gave up driving because he fell asleep at the wheel once but he was a very careful driver, except in half-tracks strangely.
Posted 11 years ago # -
RX52 Sliver megane.
I was sitting 3rd at the lights, wating to turn left at Church Hill into Morningside Road before a sharp right to Abbotsford Crescent.
Green for go, negotiating the corner and aforementioned megane tries to overtake.
On
The
CornerNot being the mild mannered janitor type, I stopped the bike (traffic chaos ensued for next few mins) to enquire if the driver was aware that this was dangerous (esp given I was about to execute a right turn immediately) and that kind of manoeuvere would have been a test fail (along with a few choice anglo saxon comments).
His truly magnificent response was 'what are you greeting about, there was loadsay f**kin room'
Guys like him make me dispair.
On the flip side, white van at stenhouse allowed me through two pinch point islands - so go figure?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Dear Mr Idiot in a small black car...
If the traffic coming the other way has been held up through the one-way system (at Haymarket) by a bus or two, then no amount of you having a green light will make it disappear and you will just have to wait.(I mean, OK, this was a bit of a non-incident, it was just the fact that he'd pulled forward over the pedestrian crossing when it was obvious that he'd get no further...)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'd unfortunately forgotten to switch my hatcam back on last night when I rejoined the road, missing the tube who tried to take out my back wheel on his way onto the Kinnaird/Wickes roundabout.
Posted 11 years ago # -
No-one. An entirely uneventful commute to work today with space and time given. Slightly unnerving...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Ditto, though I was out before dawn and the roads were quite empty.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I was out early as well, so a wee bit quieter - though only as far as PY where I stopped for a coffee. Even after that the roads were pleasant.
Actually. There was one humungous SUV pickup that had its front wheels in an ASL. But after I'd pulled in front and the lights went green he set off slowly behind me, holding back, presumably having seen the next set of lights were also red (and I hadn't seen how he'd ended up with wheels in the ASL, so it might well have been perfectly legitimate).
Posted 11 years ago # -
I thought to myself as the white council Transit minibus passed me within a childs' arm reach, and I reached out and touched it as it went past, how successful Cycling Scotland's "give me space" campaign really was.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The wee Beemer-rollerskate sitting in the ASZ at Fountainbridge, which became the wee Beemer in the ASZ to turn from Semple St into Morrison, though he loses three Beemer-points for not overtaking me between Loudons and Evans and then not screeching away into Bread St as soon as the lights turned green, instead dithering until he was beeped by the normal car behind him.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The Mondeo that HAD to pass me on Morningside Road.
Obviously I had offended it by staying out of the door zone.
It then pulled nearer to kerb (no parked cars in next section) than I would have - in car or on a bike - might just have been deliberate...
Obviously that left plenty of room to pass on the right and I got to the lights while they were still green. It got 'stuck' 4 or 5 cars back when the lights changed!
Posted 11 years ago # -
A Mondeo driver embarked an umpteen point turn part way down Argyle Place at lunchtime even though people were cycling in both directions.
Unrelated to that, there seem to be a lot of car drivers who don't understand the purpose of those flashy orange lighty things on the corners of their cars.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I've noticed that a complete lack of indication seems to be the norm (not just in Edinburgh, but also between here and the wilds of rural Aberdeenshire) and have been conscious of it getting progressively worse over the past 12 months or so. And, for all the irony of it, also a general lack of awareness of visibility - by that I mean drivers haring about in dusk and/or wet murk with absolutely no lights on, not even side lights.
Did I miss the memo that mandated every road user have mind-reading chips installed?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Second evening in a row that a pr1ck black cab driver cuts me up on the tram tracks, turning right from Waverley bridge. Is it the same idiot? I'm ahead in the ASL, I turn slowly so as to get in the middle of the tracks before the bloody stupid traffic island pinch point, and......wham! A black cab 'squeezes past' cutting me up. This time the fool gained all of 5 yards advantage, as the bus/taxi maelstrom was tailed back all the way from North Bridge.
WHY? YOU F*****G IDIOT! I thought this, but didn't say anything, just shook my head. I'm getting so used to sheer crap, petty, vindictive, dangerous driving. It's a bit worrying: I'm losing the outrage, slowly but surely it's becoming 'normal'.
Oh yeah I forgot about the Beemer convertible which overtook dangerously close on the upramp out of Waverley station, presumably due to a constant stream of taxis coming the other way. More idiocy.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Last night, I was absolutley amazed by the insane driving on show in Leith.
Spend much time in Leith? These things happen every day. Believe it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Now, I know a lot of you won't like this idea much...but how about a 'bad cycling' thread too?!
I've been a cyclist for over 20 years...road bikes, mountain bikes, touring bikes, the velodrome for a short while in my youth, was even Scottish Champ on the MTB a long time ago, and I now own a bike repairs business. I've ridden a motorbike for 10 years, drive a car, and for the last year or so, a van. And I think this gives me a pretty well-rounded view of people's behaviour on the roads.
Bad driving annoys me! It actually annoys me more when I'm driving than when I'm cycling, because I see more incompetence than deliberate dangerous moves or people taking chances. Yesterday, driving to Howgate, I was behind a BMW that sat at 40mph in the 60 zone, then braked to 25mph in the 40 bits. It held me up, and made me irate! Then it indicated left for about 1/4 mile, before turning right! That is just bloody incompetence, and makes me think we should all have to re-sit our tests periodically. I'd be happy to, in fact I'd be happy to pay to re-sit my test if it meant everyone else had to as well! Then there was the car in front of me on the way back, trying to get onto the bypass at Lothianburn at 30mph. A downhill sliproad too...I want to be doing 70 when I hit that bypass, filter in, nice and smooth! Not 30, like a sitting duck! But from what I see on the roads, many people have forgotten everything they were taught...so I say re-test all drivers every 10 years.
But for every case of bad driving, I see at least one incidence of bad cycling. People running red lights. Riding with earphones, oblivious to all around them. Riding in the dark with no lights. Bad/inconsiderate road positioning, or pulling out without shoulder-checking first...unaware that once a driver has committed to overtaking, they can't always just slam on the brakes to avoid the bike that's now careering unexpectedly across the road into a right turn! These cyclists are clearly ONLY cyclists, and not also car-drivers like most us. Cyclists missing cars by inches when riding through gaps (which I do) but then ranting and raving when the same car returns the favour shortly after with a close but probably well-judged pass. Why are the driver's margins for error not allowed to be the same as those of the cyclist. A well-judged miss is a miss, right? My personal pet-hate occurs while waiting at the lights in the van, indicating to turn left. The number of cyclists who pull up on my left (right in the blind spot) to go straight on is almost unbelievable. How can anyone think that's a good place to set off from?!
All my non-cyclist friends notice these things too, and then give ME a hard time for it, like I'm somehow responsible for the behaviour of all cyclists! I've actually come to the conclusion that a lot of cyclists are people who couldn't, or wouldn't pass a driving test, even if they wanted to. They give people like me (who consider themselves 'proper' cyclists) a bad name! And it's this that causes a lot of the animosity between 'drivers' and 'cyclists' (like they're two sperate groups of people with no crossover!!) Is it maybe time, dare I say it, for some kind of test and llicence to ride a bike on the roads? With the sheer volume of cyclists and other traffic on the roads, and the standard of riding I see, it may well be!
So can you all do me a favour? Sure, keep grabbing the keys out of some a**hole's ignition and flinging 'em as far as you can, when said a**hole near kills you. Keep removing the unused and therefore unnecessary wing-mirrors and indicators from cars if you think it's justifiable! But next time you see a cyclist going through a red light, or veering wildly across the road without warning, not indicating where it really could save their life, or riding at night without proper lights, catch up with them and give 'em a bloody good slap and/or talking to! The lesson's better coming from you, another cyclist, than just another car driver.
And now for some advice...
I've developed an 'elbows-out' riding style and a fast pair of legs...I simply dictate what those behind me can and cannot do. That cuts down on a lot of overtaking related incidents!If things are looking a bit tight up ahead, indicate and sit out a bit in the road so no-one can even try to pass...then make an obvious move back towards the kerb when YOU decide it's safe. If you take away people's options, the likelihood of an accident is lowered because they're not going to take that chance.
If you see a car wanting to pull onto the road ahead, from a side street, quick shoulder check and move out, catching their eye and positioning yourself in a more visible place on the road, minimising the chances of them not spotting you.
If you want to ride up the inside of vehicles (which you're perfectly entitled to do, but a lot of people object to) make sure you're visible in their mirrors, cover your brakes and keep a good eye out for any 'last minute' indicators!
If there's a lorry who's driver appears to be trying to kill you, it's probably because he doesn't know you're there. Lorries a made out of blind spots! Make sure you can see the driver's eyes through the windscreen or make sure you're in his mirrors. If you can't see his eyes, he can't see you. And you'll come off worst!
And get fitter. Go faster. Leave all unnecessary weight at home. Get a fast road bike. If you can sit at 25-30mph around the town for even short bursts, nobody evens tries to overtake...and this means you can have the full width of the lane to yourself. The whole road. Just like any other vehicle. It's great. And you don't get so angry with everyone!
Matt
Just Bike RepairsPosted 11 years ago # -
Now, I know a lot of you won't like this idea much...but how about a 'bad cycling' thread too?!
Plenty self flagellation round here...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Sorry Matt, but I think there's a lot unhelpful statements in your post.
If you can sit at 25-30mph around the town for even short bursts, nobody evens tries to overtake
Fine for me, and most of the time I probably do, but my mum's never going to manage that and I'd like the roads to be an environment where everyone is happy to cycle. A cyclist should be allowed an appropriate amount of room (and I personally believe this is almost always the full width of the lane) regardless of their speed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hey, Rust....
Yeah, fair play, that last bit's maybe not an option for everyone...but the rest of it surely has some relevance, no matter who you are.
Out of interest, which other statements do you find unhelpful? I thought it was quite a well balanced argument against ranting solely about drivers, when everyone is guilty (me included...very occasionally, of course) of bad riding, driving, whatever. I've no doubt that most of the 32 pages of complaints about drivers here are valid complaints...but there seems to fair bit of 'us versus them' running through the thread too. But then, I suppose this thread only exists as an outlet for us to vent our anger each morning when we get to work, having had yet another near-death experience on our way there...so of course, everyone who's said anything on here is raging and frothing at the mouth as they're typing. I should expect a bit of bias!
I hadn't actually realised that there indeed WAS already a 'bad cycling' thread. Thanks for pointing me in its direction, SteveO...some of it's quite funny, if more than a little scary!!
Matt...
Posted 11 years ago # -
...there seems to fair bit of 'us versus them' running through the thread too. But then, I suppose this thread only exists as an outlet for us to vent our anger each morning when we get to work, having had yet another near-death experience on our way there.
Or on the way home from work, or pootling to the shops on a weekend. The 'us versus them' is a natural extension of the casual disregard—intentional or otherwise through lack of awareness and anticipation and care—that so many motorists show in their driving towards other road users, particularly anyone slower or smaller or not protected with a cage of armour. Going like the clappers isn't an option for everyone, even for the fittest among us, when that disregard is manifest on a hill or through roadworks or when trying to make a right turn out of Gilmore Place.
The 'us'* is SRD and miniSRD on her tandem, it's Tulyar hauling a computer, it's Laid Back and chdot and me with a headful of Cyclecraft recommendations, it's Anth with a bagful of camera, it's Dave out snowploughing, it's Kaputnik chasing trams and breweries, it's Fimm and DaveC and Amir and Gembo time trialling their way around the county, and all of us being just a little bit sick of the disrespect we see almost every day for simply being on the road.
CCE is an inclusive forum, so we also have a thread for rubbish walking:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8717
* other forummers are available.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hi xcm
And get fitter. Go faster. Leave all unnecessary weight at home. Get a fast road bike.
Most folks around here don't ride (just) for fun - it is a practical way to get about and in particular to work.
I commute on a steel tourer with full mudguards (coz it rains) carrying a full change of clothes, lunch, a laptop and often several lumps of electronics and with power packs. So in spite of racking up 120+ miles per week I am not going to be doing 25-30 except downhill.
A lot of the rest of your advice is perfectly sound - and practiced by the majority around here - I would just say that speed is not, and should not be, considered a requirement for someone simply wishing to cycle around.
Posted 11 years ago # -
... and there is a typo in your link which reminds me that I need to book a Whole Bang Shoot for said tourer soon.
Posted 11 years ago #
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