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"The True Cost of Commuting"

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  1. Dave
    Member

    He then multiplies those costs many times to give big numbers over 10 years and adds in a few high notional costs (like valuing your non-work time using your gross salary rate - a method that always means no-one should move a muscle).

    I thought the article was interesting, and to answer the charge against 'special pleading' I'm going to run the same calculation for us, although at the previous job (since we have, ironically, secured jobs and house that are nearby which is the thrust of the original post!).

    Myself - £170pcm bus+train ticket, or £340pcm to run a car
    wife - £126pcm bus + train ticket, or £193pcm to run a car

    (Since we'd own one car either way, we should factor in a discount to the car option above. Let's generously discount £85pcm to keep one on the road out of the general household budget - a grand a year).

    Over a ten year period, then, the cost of commuting by public transport would be £35520. The cost of commuting by cars would be £51960.

    It's obvious that some allowance must be made for the value of leisure time, since otherwise a calculation would prove that a 10 hour, £50pcm commute was better value than a 1 hour £100pcm commute, although I'd never accept this in reality.

    In the original article, the median wage was used, but I'll be pessimistic and use the minimum wage instead. 1h each way plus 45m each way makes 3.5h per day, x £6 = £21, or £462pcm. Over ten years this is £55k.

    To be honest, I wouldn't give up extra hours of my already short leisure time just to earn £6, so this is a stiff underestimate, but I suppose that makes the argument more convincing if anything.

    So, for us, if we bought a house for a ten year period, logically we should be willing to spend an extra £90k to live near work as opposed to commuting- closer to £110k if we wanted to drive.

    However, according to ESPC a four bed in Dunfermline would cost "£200,000 compared to over £370,000" in Edinburgh. This means it would make economic sense to live in Dunfermline and suck up the commuting - although for a two bed flat they say "around £75000 compared to almost £130000", so the sensible decision would be to live in Edinburgh and suck up the extra cost of accommodation.

    It's an interesting thought experiment for sure.

    Of course, long distance bike commuters can have the best of both worlds, commuting virtually for free, enjoying better health, enjoying their commute time as recreation (if the route is conducive to that, careful choice of house & job required!), etc. etc...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. alibali
    Member

    Nice calculation, Dave

    I'm sure an economist might argue that the costs and benefits listed in this thread are precicely why there is the cost difference you noted between Dunfermline and Edinburgh and why it works out differently for larger houses compared to flats.

    No-one can escape the power of the market...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. It's a very interesting debate. I remember a Twitter storm starting once when someone (might have been Jack Thurston) claimed that anyone who lived outside the city and expected to have their public transport subsidised, or provided at all, was selfish.

    Cost is a HUGE factor. Obviously calculations can be done to show that the cost of commuting is more than the difference in property values. But I can't see a bank accepting that argument when you're applying for a mortgage. "Yes, yes, I know that technically I should only be able to borrow £150k, but over the next ten years my commuting costs will be £50k, so really it makes sense to lend me the £190k I need to buy the place in town."

    'Quality of life' is a lovely woolly notion that will apply to no two people the same, and really you can't say that the person who chooses to live outside the town in a large houses and spends an hour and a half commuting is any more right or wrong than the person who lives in town in a boxroom next door to where he lives, if both of them are doing it because, to them, that gives them the quality of life they want.

    I personally like the fact I have a garden to spend time in, and the space afforded me by a garage (as well as off-road parking, which has a knock-on (small) saving effect on the insurance for the car). I've done flats, and not sure I could or would go back. For many the 4-5 miles I am from work would be too far. I have a friend who bought a tiny flat in Canonmills because the Shore was too far from tthe town centre. Horses for Courses.

    As it happens our plan is to move out of the city at some point. My main requirement is either that it's within 20 miles so I can still ride it; or within reach of somewhere easy to park on the outskirts so I can ride the rest. My own 'Quality of Life' determines that space, peace and quiet, and the ability to own more than the current 4 chickens in the back garden, overrides the need to be closer to the centre of the urban connurbation.

    That decision is right for me. My friend's quality of life living in a teeny flat in Canonmills is right for him (apart from anything else he doesn't cycle or drive, but that's by the by).

    Monetise the decisions if you like, but it's a bit like putting a price on a favourite colour.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "Of course, long distance bike commuters can have the best of both worlds, commuting virtually for free"

    That depends.

    We've had threads on here about the cost of cycling.

    'Serious' commuters - fast/long distance - tend to buy more expensive bikes with more expensive bits to be replaced when worn.

    Can be more pence per mile than an old car (not just petrol).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. primalgeek
    Member

    chdot, you haven't factored in the extra food consumed for a fast/long distance commute... or is that just me? :-)

    [And I'm not even fast]

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "'Quality of life' is a lovely woolly notion that will apply to no two people the same, and really you can't say that the person who chooses to live outside the town in a large houses and spends an hour and a half commuting is any more right or wrong "

    They are (for many people) also family life balances.

    I remember many years ago a piece on the radio about commuting/'quality of life' (probably before that phrase was in common use).

    There was a man - something in the City - who moved to Bournemouth because he didn't want to 'bring up my children in London' - clearly a universal den of iniquity.

    Clearly he was able to afford a house by the sea and the price of a season ticket for a three hour commute each way.

    Don't know if he didn't like his wife/children, or they him. Obviously there are other people who work away during the week (and longer).

    He thought he was doing the best for his family. I don't suppose the BBC went back, 20 years later, to ask his wife/children.

    Don't know whether this arrangement was 'preferred option' or 'duty' or ? Even among his colleagues it must have been odd then.

    Perhaps that interview has remained a factor in my subsequent home/workplace decision.

    One year I spent a few days a month working in London. It was fun (and involved money) and before email, but I prefered being able to see my young daughter everyday.

    I suppose a bigger question is why, these days of the web and traffic jams, most people go in to work every day(?)

    Obviously in some jobs you have to 'be there' - but for others, must mean employers don't trust people unless their managers can see them!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. "Obviously in some jobs you have to 'be there' - but for others, must mean employers don't trust people unless their managers can see them!"

    I think that's it to be honest. And a certain amount of suspicion of new ways of working. There still is a huge school of thought that work involves everyone being together in the same building. I have no doubt at all that I could do my job ju7st as well sat at my desk at home in my underwear.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    "I could do my job ju7st as well sat at my desk at home in my underwear"

    Or less??

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. Dave
    Member

    "'Serious' commuters - fast/long distance - tend to buy more expensive bikes with more expensive bits to be replaced when worn.

    Can be more pence per mile than an old car (not just petrol)."

    Can, certainly. You'd have to try quite hard though - the cost of fuel alone for our reasonably efficient car would be over £100pcm, which would pay for a lot of bike. There's a chap in the office who puts £70 of fuel in per week, but considers £200 for a decent used bike to be too expensive...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. amir
    Member

    "I could do my job ju7st as well sat at my desk at home in my underwear"

    I would worry about not doing the right amount of work (either too much or too little). The good thing about leaving the house and commuting is the routine. It helps to keep a balance between work and play.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    There's a chap in the office who puts £70 of fuel in per week, but considers £200 for a decent used bike to be too expensive...

    Classic!

    Don't know whether this arrangement was 'preferred option' or 'duty' or ? Even among his colleagues it must have been odd then.

    I have a number of colleagues who commute the same route as me to Dundee, others who come from Glasgow, which is even further/longer.

    None of us does it 5 days a week, mind you. Some working from home is allowed. If one was doing the full week, either an up sticks would be required, or that quaint tradition, the 'pied á terre'.

    The common thread seems to be that we all prefer to live in the cities we are in and put up with the long commute* rather than move to the mouth of the Tay, delightful though it can be. The reasons will be different for each.

    * - Though as it is a train, one can create a 'temporary office' of sorts for nearly an hour, with nice seascapes whizzing past the window.

    Posted 13 years ago #

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