CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Getting in the way 'On Purpose'

(24 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from chdot

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  1. So this morning I reach the top of the Royal Mile (well, almost, I wasn't going to the castle). Turning left to Johnstone Terrace. The cobble surface is awful at that point so I'm a little out. I make the left about mid-lane - there's a pedestrian island narrowing the road, so nothing can go past if I'm left anyway. I can feel the van behind me.

    The right sweep is off-camber, with a terrible road surface, and at least one manhole cover to boot. Oh, and there are parked cars ahead. I stay mid-lane. Van accelerates, passes quite closely, I turn and the driver has both hands off the wheel shouting and indicating I should be left. I point at the parked cars in disgust. He cuts me up.

    He's in sight all the way down, and up to Bread Street. I get held up slightly by traffic, but head to East Fountabridge (Breadt Street is closed in the contraflow direction at the moment). He's there, at the red light at the junction with Lothian Road (not in the ASL remarkably, though two cyclists are). Window is down.

    I lean back to see if he's looking, he leans out, "It's not worth arguing about mate."

    "I'm not going to argue, but it's just there were parked cars so I was staying out for them."

    "Aye, but you were in the middle all onto Johnstone Terrace, you were doing it on purpose."

    I try to explain about the road surface and the parked cars, but his mind is closed. I'm getting in his way 'on purpose'.

    Anyway, lights go green, he passes very close to one cyclist while still having a go at me, then completely cuts up the other cyclist to go through the road narrowing ahead as I turn right into Semple Street.

    Seriously, how did we come to the point where cyclists are viewed as actually deliberately trying to get in the way of traffic? I don't know anyone (save for critical mass) who does it in order to hold people up and make their life difficult. For safety reasons mebbes, but for kicks? That would be frankly insane on our part given how squishy we are if hit. Frustrating, too, that they can't see why I was riding where I was...

    Argh! Grr! etc etc etc

    Posted 13 years ago #
  2. Smudge
    Member

    It's no help, but I'd lay a pound to a penny he behaves just the same way towards any vehicle that he feels is holding him up.

    Unfortunately passing the assessment which decides whether or not a learner driver may be trusted to continue learning unsupervised does not make a driver, as evidenced daily on our roads by people who have no interest in anything or anyone outside their cabin until they think they are being in some way inconvenienced.
    Sad, selfish, stupid, and unfortunately very hard to change :-(

    Posted 13 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    Maybe we should have a national 'Getting in the way of motorists on purpose' day. Just get in folk's way, on purpose, all day. We'll see how they like that!

    Then, the following day when we're all cycling normally, a few may realise that, hey, we weren't doing it on purpose except for that one day...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  4. "Sad, selfish, stupid, and unfortunately very hard to change :-("

    Yep, I'm already over it! ;)

    Although I do like crowriver's idea - in a similar vein I think I'm finally going to roll out my idea next year for National Take Your Car To Work Day.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  5. thebikechain
    Member

    You can't get in the way of traffic... you are traffic!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  6. Ah no, I mistakenly wrote a thing in the last citycycling about the fact I am not traffic... ;)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  7. recombodna
    Member

    National take your car to work day??? GENIUS!!! For one day get everybody to do everything by car.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    National Take Your Car To Work Day

    Nobody would get to work as they would be stuck in one huge traffic jam all day. That might open a few eyes!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  9. Yip, that was the plan. Forst mooted a couple of years ago - actually got some mild interest from BBC Breakfast about covering it (think I've still got the contact somewhere). Need to pitch it somehow so that people WILL take it up.

    Window stickers and the like saying "I'd usually be on a bike/bus/walking", that kind of thing. Needs publicity for people to realise that is why the traffic is busier than usual. And make people realise that 'traffic' is volume of 'cars' - a very tangible effect of there being less people on bikes and more in a cage (as well as making it clear that most cyclists do actually have the option, but don't take the car by choice).

    Posted 13 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    ...brought to you in association with NCP and the City of Edinburgh Council Parking Revenues Department...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  11. I parked in the NCP on Castle Terrace the other night - forgot how ridiculously expensive it is!

    Posted 13 years ago #
  12. spitters
    Member

    I got beeped at for riding alongside another cyclist just to tell her that her red light was too low behind the back wheel and invisible to anyone who wasn't over/under/taking. I had been there for enough time to say the words "Your light in invisible behind you and to the left, you need to... <BEEPBEEP> SHUT UP ...move it bye now"...
    He then passed me and slowed down so I was right alongside him for half the distance between (Saxe Coburg St - Perth St) making his point I am not sure but regardless - I caught him at the lights at Brandon St and waved as I passed him to make my point that I was back in front
    Later met the sam cyclist lady and had a nice wee chat as she was new to commuting and had no idea about the lights or other kit to get. Getting a new bike soon anyway as suspension and knobbly tyres not the best on the roads. Told her about the site - if you're reading this "Hello" :)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  13. wee folding bike
    Member

    I was threatened with having to use the car last week just because number two son had spent the evening in Monklands A&E and Wishaw General. Luckily he got out at 0030 hrs and I was able to dodge the bullet.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's just plain bullying from the safety of their metal escape pod. Every morning I see legions of cars "getting in the way on purpose" - blocking cycle lanes, bus lanes, lanes of traffic, lights, pedestrian crossings and so forth all in the name of them just squeezing in a little bit ahead of the next guy. But no drivers bother to have a go at them, because they're also in their metal escape pod. They feel bigger and safer and more dominant than someone who is smaller and more vulnerable and less able to be dominant and they bully.

    My new approach is not going to be combative (unless it needs to be) it is going to be to try and make them feel ashamed. I don't care if it doesn't work but losing your rag if you don't need to just gives them gratification I think. As my mum would say if I'd been proper naughty wee boy "I'm not angry, I'm dissapointed."

    Posted 13 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    My new approach is not going to be combative (unless it needs to be) it is going to be to try and make them feel ashamed.

    I've taken to very theatrical winger-wagging at errant drivers. Normally I reserve this for those silly drivers who think "Oh damn, the lights are changing, I'll just squeeze through.....after all those six cars/lorries/vans in front are all cruising through the lights. Why should I have to stop?". Only by the time they reach the lights they are well and truly RED. They carry on, hoping no-one will notice. However my queue of traffic has a green signal, and is bearing down on the miscreant RLJ drivers with me at the front (naturally). So a good old finger wag, accompanied by a "Tsk, tsk" or "Naughty driver!" in the direction of their driver's windows. Works a treat! The mixture of shame and embarrassment on their faces is a delight to behold. I got to do it three times in the past 2 days.

    Naughty drivers! Don't think we can't see what you're doing...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    @Crow - Very Theatrical Winger Wagging - does that not get you arrested?

    I have given up [I say that, but when spectacular stunts performed I may still exclaim or shake my head].

    A very drunk man shouted at me after he got off the bus - Have you gat a licence for that. I just laughed and said - you don't need one. Trying to keep it jocular [ especially after the guy clinging to the windscreen wipers]

    Posted 13 years ago #
  17. splitshift
    Member

    back to origonal thread, vans !!!!!!!
    couriers regularly stop/park right in front of me(44 ton wagon )as i am obviously about to leave a delivery yard etc, they jump out and look straight at me, then eyes down as they see me looking (glaring ) back, generally they are only a coupl;e of minutes anyway but with most of these cretins, revenge is sweet, do you know how long it takes to restart a lorry when youve stalled it, at the head of a que of traffic( with the van behind you ) ? Just long enough for the lights to be seriously red by the time my tail has just gone through !
    oops, I forgot, vans, esp white ones are protected by that star treck force shield thing !
    They all notice and complain when we ( cyclists ) are taking a defensive line, and hence holding them up but how many say thanks at all when we move into a clear position to allow safe overtaking ?
    be safe ! Scott

    Posted 13 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    @gembo - finger wagging, obviously :)

    Posted 13 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "oops, I forgot, vans, esp white ones are protected by that star treck force shield thing !
    They all notice and complain when we ( cyclists ) are taking a defensive line, and hence holding them up."

    SO true!

    Had one of those yesterday.

    Wasn't even holding it up, there was a taxi in front of us both - and it stopped at a red pedestrian light.

    And I was in the middle of the road as I was about to turn right.

    And I have its number.

    And I'll be visiting a police station.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  20. Dave
    Member

    Anth, I recommend taking a look at http://www.cyclechat.net/topic/57877-statement-template/ and printing something out to take with you.

    When I went to Leith yesterday, I literally gave the officer a quick verbal (two minute) explanation, handed him the statement and the CD with footage (optional, of course), and he said that was plenty to go on, and he would get back to me if he needed anything.

    It might go nowhere, or just a verbal warning or whatever, but I think at least if you give it to them on a plate, it makes it easy to view as an opportunity to notch up an easy success for their stats, rather than extra work...

    Posted 13 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    I have given up [I say that, but when spectacular stunts performed I may still exclaim or shake my head].

    Oh I used to do the head shaking: far too subtle. What naughty drivers need is a school masterly (or matronly, depending on gender of cyclist) ticking off, not a blissed out shrug with "Hey, those crazy dudes" type of thing.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  22. wingpig
    Member

    Headshaking (with plenty of (head-fastened) lights front and back) should (I hope) convey to any other road users nearby that disapproval is being expressed in addition to any finger-waggling directed at the perpetrator of the disapproved-of behaviour.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  23. gembo
    Member

    Just to dwell on the positive for a second - I let two cars out on to the LAnark Road yesterday and the day before several turn right off the LAnark Road. My feeling is that drivers assume the cyclist wont do this [you know brake a little to let them take their turn]. You see other car drivers doing this for each other on rare occasions so I would go with doing it for them too. You do then get the karma back with people giving you time and only overtaking when safe. It is a war out there but there are lulls in the proceedings.

    Posted 13 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "When drivers encounter cyclists in circumstances that cause them to slow or deviate… their estimation of the cyclist’s discourtesy increases, regardless of the cyclist’s actual behaviour."

    http://richardjgarside.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/drivers-0-cyclists-61

    Posted 13 years ago #

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