Motorists? Cash cows?? Is this some sort of parallel universe? Are motorists overtaxed? The evidence says not. They don't even cover the full cost of the damage they do.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Cycle Training - any chance of progress?
(45 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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Ok maybe poor choice of words, the government extract a *lot* of money from motorists, a sudden largeish reduction in car use/ownership would still leave them many of the costs but radically reduce the cash coming in..
Posted 14 years ago # -
Edited to add, statistics, when remotely connected to politicians, is an untrustworthy business.
Whilst I agree on the whole with you, I have to be inherently suspicious of *any* figures coming from the government, an organisation who consider the revenue from fuel duty as money coming from motorists, but the VAT charged on fuel duty as a seperate and unconnected income (let alone the brass neck of charging tax on the tax they are taking from people(!) lies, damned lies and politics...)
My personal feeling is that, as you say, the motorists cost more than they (we!) give, however I also suspect the Govt use very very suspect manipulation of the figures to show a minimal income from motorists in order to justify ever harsher taxes. Very hard to find facts through the fog of claim, counter-claim and downright lies!
But then no surprises from people who think they shouldn't have to stand in the dock or be subject to due process in the courts when they get caught (allegedly) defrauding their employers, but that is a different soapbox so I'll shut up about that ;-)I think we are both however agreed that more people on two wheels would do an awful lot of good, and a fundemental change of attitude is required, both from the car users and from the politicians who should serve us. Hopefully the slow chages I see around town can be continued.
Posted 14 years ago # -
It is not the level of car ownership that is the problem, it is the level of (unnecessary) car usage that is the problem. The Germans have higher car ownership then we do, but they use their cars far less, because they have a range of transport options open to them. Here we don't give people the same easy choices, car use is made as easy as possible at the expense of other transport options. That is what we need to turn around, make using the car for short journeys and urban transport less attractive, while making active travel more attractive.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Agreed, completely.
Someone once said that eventually rising fuel prices will see the fossil fuel vehicle reach the place that horses now have in society, a luxury transport mode reserved for lesiure use. I think maybe that would be a not bad use for it!
(and there speaks a petrolhead, :-o times must be changing!!)Posted 14 years ago # -
Just noticed.
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/Schools-urged-to-get-on.6151516.jp
"City education leader Marilyne MacLaren said: "We want to encourage the uptake of all sports within our schools as it is important for all children and young people to lead an active and healthy lifestyle."
Another point missed.....
Posted 14 years ago # -
Never mind that, look at this letter in the EEN. :-(
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion/Letters-New-Forth-crossing-infringes.6162207.jp
"MY CLASS (primary seven) has just heard that we might not be getting the bus passes that we need for when we go to high school.
When we heard about this we were very sad and also angry because we need them and it's also a health and safety risk because anything could happen to us if we started walking to school.
Some of us are scared about it too, because someone has been hurt at a Musselburgh park and it is right beside the high school.
We need to get people to see how much we need this bus pass.
It's also costing us more money that we just don't have because of the credit crunch. So please help us make people aware."
Posted 14 years ago # -
"a health and safety risk"!! Walking to school?? All children should be walking or cycling to school! They weren't born with wheels.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@ chdot, yes she really has missed the point, cycling is about Transport not sport, it is about learning a life skill, is about learning about how to negotiate traffic, if is far more than mere sport. We should email her (marilyne.macLaren@edinburgh.gov.uk) and put her straight on this.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Bold highlights by me
"Conclusion on cycle training
71. The Committee believes that it is crucial that young people gain experience of cycling in order to build up the confidence to use bicycles and establish a ‘cycling habit’ early on in their lives. On the committee’s visit to Copenhagen, members heard that if people start cycling at an early age, they will continue doing so as they grow older.
72. In the view of the Committee, a well-managed effective cycle training scheme should be an important part of any approach to improving participation in cycling.
73. Yet the Committee heard that the current provision of cycle training in Scotland does not appear to be adequate. Firstly, insufficient numbers of young people are participating in cycle training. Second the structure of delivery of training appear patchy and unclear with an over-reliance on volunteers. The Committee notes the experience of cycle training in England, where a centralised scheme appears to have been successful. The Committee wishes to see an end to the current situation in Scotland where so many young people grow up receiving no practical cycle training.
74. The Committee recommends that the Scottish Government sets out in the Cycling Action Plan for Scotland a detailed strategy for increasing participation in cycle training in Scotland. The Committee is attracted to the model of a more centrally managed scheme which allows for common accepted standards of cycle training to be put in place in a consistent manner across the country. The Committee considers that this should allow for an agreed minimum standard of training to be given to all young people. A new nationally approved and co-ordinated training scheme would also benefit from economies of scale as it would be organised on a national rather than a local authority level. The Committee is also of the view that improvements to cycling infrastructure will need to take place in order to realise the benefits of improved cycle training. This is discussed later in this report."
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ticc/reports-10/trr10-04.htm
Posted 14 years ago # -
@ chdot
I don't disagree with any of that, I just maintain that there is a need for adult training as well. We have a lost generation of adults who need a wee bit of help, in the form of training and mentorring, to get them on to bikes and enjoying Active Travel in the city.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"I don't disagree with any of that, I just maintain that there is a need for adult training as well."
I have never disputed that.
The point is without good, virtually universal, CT at school there will be another lost generation.
Posted 14 years ago # -
This is getting a wee bit circular.
Posted 14 years ago # -
46. Peter Hawkins of the Cycle Touring Club Scotland described the problem as follows—
“It is like having a product to market and sell: if your sales pitch focuses on cycle training, and you are telling people that cycling is a wonderful thing and that they should do it, you must have a product behind that. The infrastructure must be cycle friendly in the first place.”
ALSO pars. 48 - 74
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ticc/reports-10/trr10-04.htm
Posted 14 years ago # -
"
Alison Johnstone, Green councillor for Meadows and Morningside, also expressed fears after it emerged that just one in six pupils gets cycle training in primaries.She said: "In the absence of a genuine proven commitment to cycle training for P6 and P7 pupils, I would have concerns that this could well lead to more children being driven to high school and we need to really be doing more to encourage a culture of cycling and safer waking routes to school.
"The sad fact is that there are far too many primary schools which don't have walking buses and very few children are being given the chance to learn to cycle before they go up to high school."
"http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Father39s-fury-at-scrapping-of.6197066.jp
Posted 14 years ago #
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