CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 14years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
32. The Committee also heard that some potential cyclists were discouraged from cycling because of aspects of the cycling culture in Scotland. Paul Tetlaw of Transform Scotland explained—“In Scotland, cyclists look like Lycra-clad warriors; they are dressed as if to do battle on the streets. People seem to feel that they have to dress and behave like that.”
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ticc/reports-10/trr10-04.htm#_ftn13
Now, why does that sound familiar??
34. Dave du Feu of Spokes drew a distinction between cycling as transport and cycling as a sport, arguing that the perception that sporting cyclists needed specialist equipment and greater fitness needed to be separated from day-to-day cycling as transport.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ticc/reports-10/trr10-04.htm#_ftn13
Nope, it wasn't Dave du Feu or Spokes that I heard it from.
Yeah, I think Paul Tetlaw is on here under an alias. I thought we were coming to a consensus on this forum that it doesn't matter if you are a commodity fetishist in lycra or a tweed suited pipe smoker in a helmet as long as you are on your bike. Plurality is what we need and that will lead to more cycling not factionalism and bizarre interpretations such as Factor X causes people not to cycle.
I'm in two minds on this sort of thing. On the one hand, I find it difficult to imagine someone who would otherwise cycle, but is put off by the image. (I mean, if you're so likely to be put off, even if all other cyclists looked like Copenhagen Cycle Chic, the first time you encounter a grumpy motorist you'd surely give it up!)
Yet on the other hand, I also find it hard to believe that prospective cyclists (perhaps looking wistfully out of their car in a queue of traffic) aren't led to certain conclusions by the stream of people dressed like dustbin men, with armour on, dodging certain death from every passing car (I exaggerate, of course, but to someone who's used to travelling "as they are" it must sometimes seem quite extreme).
I have started to see the occasional (mountain bikers?) commuting in full-face and elbow pads.
Sounds far-fetched to me, an excuse for not meeting the targets set about increasing the numbers of cyclists and upping cycle use per se. The man is a plant and clearly a hoaxer. Idiot.
I think it's a splendid idea. Blame the fact that not enough people are cycling on the people who are already cycling. It's foolproof. Saves actually doing anything about it.
Blame the fact that not enough people are cycling on the people who are already cycling. It's foolproof. Saves actually doing anything about it.
:-)
Yes... you've summed it up nicely.
If only there were more ordinary people cycling.
They should confiscate all the bikes from the existing 'hard core' cyclists in Edinburgh and start again.
I did have this strange idea where a 'hard core' would be paid to cycle on behalf of the sedentary majority.
This would be a cycling offset scheme. Those with BMWs could continue to drive to work but sponsor a cyclist - lowering their pollution rating.
"They should confiscate all the bikes from the existing 'hard core' cyclists in Edinburgh"
This include you?
There is the persistent problem that people like cycling but don't like cyclist. Cyclist are seen as an out group, something other, and not as ordinary people on bikes. Having seen the Reds Shirts (well they behaving like a group of cycle fascists) of the ERC set off from the Commie yesterday I am not surprised. Jumping red lights, riding down the pavements then straight across in front of other traffic, just general bad manors. It really does give the rest of us a bad name! We are all tarred with the same brush and it is one of the reasons ordinary people think that cycling is not for them. If anyone here know any the Red Shirts, we remind them that the highway code applies to them as well. None of us would tolerate that sort of behaviour from drivers! This lot should have their bicycles confiscated.
ERC?
(Not up to speed on many aspects of cycling, sorry!)
Ahh, found it on google, Edinburgh Road Club?
Actually, it would be nice to have a brief description of the tribes & sub-groups of the cycling culture. I too am pretty ignorant - obviously some of the clubs are pretty genteel (judging by my neighbours' 50+ years membership), while others less so? And that Spokes is not beloved of all? (well, Kim's description at least suggests a big divide on practice, if not policy). Anyone up to giving us newbies a brief run-down?
"This would be a cycling offset scheme. Those with BMWs could continue to drive to work but sponsor a cyclist - lowering their pollution rating. "
SHHHH! Today's forum post could end up being tomorrows policy.. :-o
chdot <<"They should confiscate all the bikes from the existing 'hard core' cyclists in Edinburgh"
This include you? >>
I'd accept compensation for loss of business assets.
kim "Having seen ... the ERC set off from the Commie yesterday I am not surprised. Jumping red lights, riding down the pavements then straight across in front of other traffic,"
At least one is a cycle trainer. Maybe he wasn't there to keep order? Sounds bad though.
Min "SHHHH! Today's forum post could end up being tomorrows policy.. :-o "
Anth has already looked into the future with Uneasy Riders in CityCycling. This is one where all cyclists are banned. Not just fixie riders!
"it would be nice to have a brief description of the tribes & sub-groups of the cycling culture."
New thread?
Here's one tribe to be going on with - (PG trailer)
More info! - http://bicyclefilmfestival.wordpress.com/films/bike-warriors-the-bike-race
"None of us would tolerate that sort of behaviour from drivers!"
Um... where do you ride? You can spend ten minutes in the city centre and see no end of outrageous driving any day you please. :)
The difference is that, for some reason, we (both as a society and as individuals) expect higher standards from people on bikes, than we do of the same people in cars.
This comment is a good example. I'd bet good money that many road rules were broken by people driving to the ERC club ride with their bike in the back. But that's "just the way it is", yet precisely the same people on their bikes, get a confiscation rant *from other cyclists*. If I was driving around the Commonwealth pool at the weekend, picture me saying that they should have their cars confiscated? Just as valid, but laughable.
I've always felt it would be a big step forward if, as a whole, cyclists stopped trying to take responsibility for the behaviour of all other cyclists. I don't feel responsible for other pedestrians, or other drivers.
This isn't intended to be a justification for bad cycling, of course. Just an observation that until we address bad driving and bad perambulating, there's not much point trying to "fix" bad cycling.
We're in a parallel universe here
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=566&replies=20#post-4566
ERC set off from the Commie yesterday I am not surprised. Jumping red lights, riding down the pavements then straight across in front of other traffic,
ERC have more members than any other cycling group in Edinburgh. Also have more woman on bikes than average club.
Think Colin on this forum is ERC? Or do we have someone else to get an answer from?
Now, they are scary, the Black Label cyclists, Embra drivers and the rest of the populace would have no idea of what had hit them!! The rest of the society of cyclists would seem normal and quite nice actually....and they would perhaps stop griping about us, and what we wear, yeah!! What a tribe, extreme.
I passed the gathering of ERC riders outside the Commie on my way to the farmers market on Saturday and it was remarkably large. Most blowing the red lights to join the throng...
Kim
Having seen the Reds Shirts (well they behaving like a group of cycle fascists) of the ERC set off from the Commie yesterday I am not surprised.
"ERC wants to instil a safety-culture both in our member and in those we ride alongside. We remind cyclists that they have rights and responsibilities as legitimate road users."
From http://www.edinburghrc.co.uk/Safety
Not wishing to excuse ERC members, but as Cyclingmollie says -
"I grew to realise that the "safety in numbers" effect I was looking for was illusory. Large groups get cut up just the same as individuals."
Problem primarily relates to 'car culture'.
There's no easy answer to address that.
More cyclists - behaving 'responsibly' - (legally too) with perhaps some new laws that tip the balance a bit -
"We do not currently have a cycling culture in Scotland, but we do aspire to become a cycling nation and will look towards our northern European neighbours in Denmark, for example, as exemplars. Copenhagen enjoys a 36% modal share for bikes and wants to increase this to 50% by 2015. There are many reasons for this high level of cycle use in Copenhagen, principally the provision of over 300kms of segregated cycle track, cycle integration with public transport and strict liability on the vehicle driver in the event of an accident. Some home contents insurance policies cover the theft of bikes, where this has been included. Should, for example, insurance cover, where negotiated, include claims against a cyclist in the event of an accident where the cyclist is deemed to be at fault?"
(edited with my italics and link)
I'm in favour of the strict liability law. My brother who lives in Germany explained the German version of it to me. He thought it made drivers take more care. But in his town they have a fantastic network of cycle paths and the cyclists I saw were very much in the Copenhagen mould.
We all (on this forum at least) want to see a cycling culture in Scotland, it is just a question of how to get there. The behaviour of recognised groups could go some way to helping, if they behave 'responsibly'. There is absolutely one need to jump red lights, ride down the pavement and cut across traffic, it just puts peoples backs up.
Yes we need to move away from the car culture, but putting peoples backs up, isn't the way to do it.
As for insurance cover, the last time I looked at my home contents insurance policy 3rd party cover is included, along with cover for my bike outside the home so long as I lock it up when I park it. Strict liability, is a great idea, people should take responsibility for their actions, and not blame the victim.
Just to change the tune a wee bit, here is an Australian perspective to throw into the mix.
From Kim's link
"Oh! and back to Melbourne, all 'merit' points earned for 'fabulous cycling infrastructure' are completely deleted for hosting 'hideous 2010 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix' - when is the global community going to ban this destructive event?"
Aye she is referring to:
"the cycling culture is well and truly entrenched...but it's not an inclusive one, and was evidently hi-jacked by the 'Sport of Cycling' long ago.
As a result the actual separate cycle-ways are a 'bun-fight' and surprisingly intimidating. They look like they have been designed:
(a) as exclusive outdoor velodromes, admittedly somewhat linear minus the steeply banked tracks & bends, and
(b) purely for elite cyclists
Speed is definitely of the essence (as is lycra), and this makes sharing the pathway with other pathway users tense."
As a result the actual separate cycle-ways are a 'bun-fight' and surprisingly intimidating.
I once pulled a guy up on the stretch of mud between dean village and the modern art gallery, he wanted past me and he wanted me out of the way as quickly as possible, i let him past when I thought there was space, he then bumped into someone coming the other way and I went past them both as they tried to extricate themselves and I pointed out that a bell, although an additional weight is useful in alerting other users that you are coming. We then had words underneath the Belford Road Bridge - he suggested I was an a-hole and I pointed out that if he hurried he might still shave a hundredth of a second off his personal best. Obviously this is very much my side of the story. The conclusion is that such antics are best left for the road and gentle off road dog walking tracks should be left to those who like to take in the view as they cycle - it is possible to be both types of cyclist, just not take the road or mountain bike culture onto the walkway. The reverse seems to have happened in Melbourne - a pathway has been grafted onto the road but the road mores have prevailed in a burst of testosterone.
You must log in to post.
Cycling in Edinburgh Flickr group
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
posts