CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Cyclists and Pedestrians (mild rant)

(42 posts)

No tags yet.


12

  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Came out of Castle Terrace from the Farmers' Market this morning, towing trolley and small person, only to have rogue cyclist blast out of Kings Stables Road, across pavement, and through Lothian Road pedestrian crossing, causing us to have to stop and watch our step. Then, as we started up again, and were trying to get to crossing before green man disappeared, an early teens roadracer type (red and white racing strip lycra), looks at us, puts on a burst of speed and goes through green man and red light. ARGH. Both knew EXACTLY what they were doing (there were cars stopped at crossing). My foul mood ameliorated only slightly when a recumbant (that you Laidback?) went through a few minutes later, and waited nicely at lights....

    Sometimes I despair, and wonder why we bother campaigning for more consideration to be given to cyclists, when they are so IGNORANT.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  2. Claggy Cog
    Member

    They should be booked for breaking the law, this is what is needed, they give the law abiding cyclists a bad name, as we are all tarred with the same brush by car drivers. The rules of the road apply to us as well, which these numpties just do not seem to get and frequently endanger others as well as themselves with their errant behaviour. If car drivers behaved like this they could expect to get nicked, so why not cyclists who flagrantly break the law and ignore the rules. There really is no excuse for jumping red lights, and it is a dangerous practice.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  3. gembo
    Member

    My theory is that a mountain bike mentality (admittedly I think mountain biking mental but maybe Glen Tress is the place for it) translates badly into city centre. However, I admit that at the Eyre Place Junction perp to Rodney St. I will cross with
    the green man in a slow way looking for pedestrians - this junction used to have a green light for cycles which was quite dangerous.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "looking for pedestrians"

    Open to misinterpretation...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "this junction used to have a green light for cycles which was quite dangerous."

    Don't remember that.

    STILL has Cyclists Dismount notice.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  6. druidh
    Member

    ....and I still ignore it every morning.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    "a mountain bike mentality...translates badly into city centre"

    Yes, that is exactly what first guy had; second guy just had road-racer arrogance.

    I just can't get over having two near-contact incidents with two bikes on 5 feet of pavement/crossing, at 10am on a Saturday morning, when the place is heaving with the elderly, small etc.

    (Should admit that I cross with green man at the lights above the Telfer subway at Dundee St, but I stop and wait, and don't just barge through people. I still get dirty looks from drivers though.)

    Posted 14 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "I cross with green man at the lights above the Telfer subway at Dundee St"

    IF that is in anyway 'illegal' it obviously shouldn't be.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  9. druidh
    Member

    I presume it's illegal if you're actually in the pedestrian crossing area and riding a bike.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "I presume it's illegal if you're actually in the pedestrian crossing area and riding a bike."

    So do I really, but it clearly is a crossing than should be part of the cycling infrastructure.

    I've seen complaints on ENews stories about cyclists not taking care where the dog-leg ramp meets the subway. Not surprising really - it always was a bad design.

    I seem to remember there wouldn't have been a ramp at all without comments on the planning application for the original Fountain Park development by Spokes.

    It really should have 'give way' markings, and possibly one of those convex mirrors that are sometimes seen near 'blind' driveways.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    Have noticed cyclists ringing their bell when going around that corner recently, which I hadn't heard before. So, maybe some improvement in practice.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  12. Min
    Member

    Gosh you seem to have more than your fair share of troubles SRD. I wonder if it is something to do with the weans? Like how lions try to kill cubs that are not their own... (eyes to heaven smiley)

    I also just ride slowly and carefully through the ped lights at Eyre place. I'll get off and push when they make motorists push their car through that same junction. }:-( I haven't ever noticed anyone abusing this by riding like an idiot so it seems to work okay for everyone. Perhaps I should borrow some kids and try to walk through with them and see if that changes!

    Posted 14 years ago #

  13. SRD
    Moderator

    Definitely my worst pedestrian encounters yet. Surely, it can only get better!

    Posted 14 years ago #

  14. LaidBack
    Member

    My foul mood ameliorated only slightly when a recumbant (that you Laidback?) went through a few minutes later, and waited nicely at lights....

    Went up Lothian Road about 10am on Saturday morning but was on a trike recumbent with a flag. I don't remember stopping at lights at King Stables. I was on way from Stockbridge - a couple from Northumbria had booked a trike tour for a birthday present.

    Gosh you seem to have more than your fair share of troubles SRD. I wonder if it is something to do with the weans?

    When you have children you do get very angry when their safety is put in question. Children are also very good at pointing out when something is wrong....

    Posted 14 years ago #

  15. SRD
    Moderator

    Yeah, thought it looked like you, but you were quickly obscured by big bus!

    Posted 14 years ago #

  16. LaidBack
    Member

    Yeah, thought it looked like you, but you were quickly obscured by big bus!

    Good. Glad no-one else was recumbenteering... not meant to be popular.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "not meant to be popular"

    Just trendy.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  18. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    This comment from Liz struck a chord with me: "If car drivers behaved like this they could expect to get nicked", mainly because it's one you hear from the anti-cycling lobby a lot.

    The fact of the matter is, while this is true, absolutely 100% true, drivers DO behave like this (in their own way, the offences are different) and DON'T get nicked. Just last night I was in the car and stopped at a red light, a car pulled out from a side street behind me, undertook me and went straight through the red. They didn't get nicked.

    They SHOULD. As should the cyclists who flout the law, but saying that, "If car drivers behaved like this they could expect to get nicked" sort of backs up that idea of cyclists as law-breaking eejits and drivers as rule-following saints.

    There are two laws in this country that I can guarantee are the most broken, and at the same time the least prosecuted. Firstly, a pub is not allowed to sell alcohol to someone who is intoxicated, and secondly, drivers are not supposed to break the speed limit.

    Note, I'm not saying law-breaking cyclists shouldn't be dealt with, they should, clearly.

    By the by, at the Eyre Place/Rodney Street bit mentioned above, I always get off and push. It's daft, it's ridiculous, it's a gap with no sense, but my personal view is we get a bad enough press as it is without me 'flagrantly breaking the law when a driver would expect to get nicked for such behaviour...' ;)

    Posted 14 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    I always assume that car drivers who jump a red, know they are breaking the law, and look round rather suspiciously for police. They gamble, but I rather assume that if a cop car pulls out behind them, they acknowledge that they broke the rules.

    Cyclists always seem to have this 'it doesn't apply to me' attitude. (maybe a bit more like red lights or speeding at 3am - 'the laws aren't for circs like this, and I know better what is safe')

    The drivers and violations that really gall me are the drivers on their mobiles who don't even consider themselves to be vulnerable to accusations of breaking the law, and just flagrantly chat without a care in the world.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    We're in a parallel universe here

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=559#post-4565

    Posted 14 years ago #

  21. Dave
    Member

    Funny, I was just thinking that!

    This weekend I was highly amused to see a taxi driver roll up to a red light at the big junction near Blackford Station, wait for a gap in the traffic which did have a green light, and then gun it through.

    It was terrible. Situations like this are what give all drivers a bad name, and I was scandalised and outraged to be tarred with his brush!

    Posted 14 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    This was sent to CTC members last week, (and forwarded to me).

    From: philip rankin <philiprankin@hotmail.com>

    Subject: cycling safety in edinburgh

    Hi All

    I am attending a meeting with Lothians and Borders Police on Cycling Safety in Edinburgh next Tuesday. If anyone has any burning issue about cycling safety which you would like raised please let me know
    regards
    Philip

    Posted 14 years ago #

  23. LaidBack
    Member

    anth"drivers DO behave like this (in their own way, the offences are different) and DON'T get nicked."

    I watched a driver continue across a green man in front of police van waiting to turn right off at Lawnmarket. I actually pointed in the vain hope that they would 'do something'. I mean if someone can't see a red light and police car waiting at same junction then what next..?

    The police sat and ignored. The traffic was heavy and in reality they could have caught suspect on foot as he just joined a queue going down Mound. So it wasn't speeding you see. He was merely someone like them that didn't want to spend hours stuck in traffic!

    Some roads are now so full to overflowing with cars that it's now accepted by many drivers and pedestrians that traffic lights are 'advisory'!

    In contrast
    I was waiting to wheel a bike over green man at West End beside Frasers. I saw a woman (normally dressed, no helmet) in her twenties on a bicycle with basket heading towards Charlotte Square. Traffic had stopped at the Fraser's side of road. Next thing I hear a police siren and this patrol car undertakes her at barriers and stops her. The pedestrian crossing is still red but it seems she had infringed something. They had blue lights flashing etc.
    Overkill? I think she was booked because traffic was quiet.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  24. chdot
    Admin

    "Police dish out 20 spot fines per day

    ON-THE-SPOT fines for anti-social behaviour are being handed out by Lothian and Borders Police at the rate of nearly 20 a day.A total of 6,871 fixed penalty notices were issued in 2009 for offences such as drunkenness, vandalism and breach of the peace – more than twice that for 2008.

    http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Police-dish-out-20-spot.6187390.jp"

    Motorists? Cyclists?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  25. Kim
    Member

    Cyclist or motorist, which is the greatest risk to others?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  26. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Absolutely correct Kim, but... Is a cyclist a risk to a pedestrian? As far as I'm concerned if you break the law you do it knowingly and should be dealt with accordingly, no matter what your transport choice. If you don't like the law then campaign against it.

    And please, let's not compare cyclists breaking laws that they don't think should apply to them as some sort of Rosa Parks-esque stand (I've seen motorists try it with speed limits, it's utterly demeaning). Putting risk aside, because no-one was hurt in any of these actions, are we seriously considering that breaking the law on a bike is acceptable? And is that because we're cyclists? One rule for us, another for motorists?

    Stealing a mars bar poses no risk to anyone whatsoever (save perhaps obesity for the purloiner) but it remains illegal.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  27. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    To carry on that analogy actually. If I steal a mars bar and get caught would it be a legitimate excuse to say, "Ah but some people steal cars, that's much more serious, so I shouldn't be dealt with"?

    In exactly the same way I think if you're caught doing something wrong on the bike it's not legitimate to say, "Ah but drivers pose more of a risk when they do something wrong, so I shouldn't be dealt with."

    Re-allocation of perspective is needed, yes, but it shouldn't be a way for anyone to dodge their responsibilities to others and to not breaking the the law.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  28. LaidBack
    Member

    In exactly the same way I think if you're caught doing something wrong on the bike it's not legitimate to say, "Ah but drivers pose more of a risk when they do something wrong, so I shouldn't be dealt with."

    I could only imagine what the woman was saying to the police. She was doing her best to look surprised and hopefully didn't use that argument. If she had looked behind her then she may have noticed that the police were around (another good reason to check behind you!). For all I know she may have run another red light further back and they were really getting hacked off.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    Anth what about (probably) 'advisory' signs.

    "There is a huge sign saying Cyclists Dismount but we all ignore that."

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=171#post-1184

    Posted 14 years ago #

  30. Smudge
    Member

    "Anth what about (probably) 'advisory' signs."
    I will have to check up sometime, however I have been told at least once by a Traffic Policeman that square / oblong signs are advisory, the round ones are compulsory, anyone able to confirm?
    Certainly when I did an IAM test the examiner advised me that the speed limit sign on the long curve where one leaves the M9 turning towards the bridge is an advisory not a compulsory...

    Posted 14 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

12

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin