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Discussion on Cycling with 3 Colleagues

(13 posts)
  • Started 13 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from bluejeangirl

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Chat with three younger, female (if either poitns are relevant?) colleagues as we were chatting and I brought up PoP.

    Red lights and pavement cycling came up.
    As did the cyclist who killed a young girl a couple of years back (with an admission that drivers obviously kill a lot more, and that it turns out she had believed all the Daily Wail coverage of the story).

    But. Also.
    Cycling provision in Edinburgh is awful.
    One thought whenever she sees someone cycling on the road that they're 'brave'.
    None would even consider cycling in Edinburgh because it is 'too dangerous'.

    This is quite simply what people think. It does no good saying to them "But it's not dangerous" and if it was that easy then we wouldn't be having PoP at all.

    I've come round to the thinking that while I personally don't think it's dangerous, that's because I've got the experience and been doing it long enough for it to be 'normal' for me. Infrastructure and driving habits have to change before the total non-cyclist can be brought on board...

    Posted 13 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    are they otherwise sporty? environmentally concerned? do they have parents or siblings or friends who cycle? do they take the bus? or drive?

    some proportion of the population is just never going to be interested. the ones we want to target are the ones who would like to, or might consider it, but have a bad experience, or not enough support to quite try it.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  3. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    In order... Yes; Mainly; Don't think so; 2 of them usually; All have licences but walk or bus to work.

    It's not that they're not interested. One cycles, but only one route, that keeps her completely off roads. Not the 'bad experience' because they've never really done it; and not really the lack of support. The roads are dangerous, they want to be able to cycle away from them.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  4. cc
    Member

    Yes. David Hembrow has written a lot about subjective safety, it's well worth a read.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  5. Uberuce
    Member

    For me the carrot was the approval of a young lady, but without the almost completely off-road route that exists between my flat and my morning job at the Gyle, I don't know if I'd have taken it up. The route from my flat to afternoon job is 8 minutes on the bike along quiet residential roads, but since I was using the buses I didn't have time to get home, so I wouldn't have used that confidence building journey anyway.

    The Union Canal was in effect my stabilisers; it took a month or two before my confidence outgrew my impatience with the extra distance and slower speed of the towpath, but it was still some months until I felt competent enough to enter the bear pit of central Edinburgh outside of witching hours.

    Looking back, it really would have been dangerous for me to cycle rush hour from day one. I started out thinking that you had to be in the ASZ; not being able to recognise a boy-racer or frustrated Beamerer by the sound of their gear changes and revs alone; not knowing what primary is, and why it wins; not knowing the light sequence of every junction I use; not knowing what primary is, and why it wins; not checking through the back window of every car for head silhouettes in case of dooring; not knowing what primary is, and why it wins; not shoulderchecking like an amphetamine-laced OCD sufferer; not knowing what primary is, and why it wins; not knowing that large left-turners have a nae-kidding kill box all down their port side; not knowing what primary is, and why it wins; not knowing to wait until the driver behind has seen your signal before changing lanes; and last but not least, not knowing what primary is, and why it wins.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  6. Morningsider
    Member

    If you are interested in this topic then you might want to read the following report produced by Steer Davies Gleave for Cycling Scotland:

    http://cyclingactionplanforscotland.com/Uploads/1281438792_Background_research_report_v2.pdf

    In my opinion, a great report into the psychology behind getting people to cycle and outlining what has been done in areas where cycling rates are high to get to that level of cycling.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  7. bluejeangirl
    Member

    I would say the female aspect does make a difference(although I wish it didn't), when I tell people I cycle to work I gets looks of shock from girls (and the usual 'but it's so dangerous!') and looks of approval from men...for my bravery? I'm not sure...I just do it because I love cycling!
    Being quite new to cycling in the city, there are some adjustments to be made in the way I cycle but having confidence is key.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "In my opinion, a great report into the psychology"

    I'm happy to take your word for it.

    Clearly it's written for people who understand this sort of thing -

    "One approach to thinking about behaviour is the so-called expectancy-value theories, of which the rational choice model provides a classical economic theory of behaviour. The basic principle of the rational choice model is that individuals make rational decisions that will optimise their own personal outcomes. The rational choice model has been criticised for its simplicity and over-reliance on the individual as a decision- making unit."

    Posted 13 years ago #

  9. chdot
    Admin

    "having confidence is key"

    Well said (and well done for being wise/brave/confident/or?)

    "there are some adjustments to be made in the way I cycle"

    Could you expand on that?

    Posted 13 years ago #

  10. Kirst
    Member

    I wouldn't have started cycling if off-road routes hadn't been an option. It is scary out there sometimes, and some days I avoid squishy death because I take avoiding action rather than because the motorists around me are driving the way they should.

    The thing is though, people say "it's so dangerous out there, I'd never cycle," not "how can I make my driving safer for you?"

    Posted 13 years ago #

  11. Tom
    Member

    Kirst: "The thing is though, people say "it's so dangerous out there, I'd never cycle," not "how can I make my driving safer for you?" "

    Too true. I also think it implies that if they cycled they wouldn't want to encounter someone who drives the way they drive. Or perhaps cyclists are really a massive vote of confidence in the abilities of motorists.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    Yeah, I totally support all the infrastructure stuff, and I think it makes a difference but for me the big day-to-day issue is driver attitude.

    Posted 13 years ago #

  13. bluejeangirl
    Member

    By adjustments I mean having to cycle more defensivly, and be constantly aware of what other people are doing and as Kirst says, taking avoiding action. I used to be able to cycle into town in the borders and not meet a single car/van/lorry!

    The thing is though, people say "it's so dangerous out there, I'd never cycle," not "how can I make my driving safer for you?"

    Saying this to the next person who say cycling is dangerous!

    Posted 13 years ago #

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