I think I know of one of the cyclists affected. He was on his way for the second day in his job in security at the airport. He'd been spooked cycling out Glasgow road on the first day, and was trying a quieter route Haymarket/roseburn etc today for the first time. Now he's got a fixed penalty and criminal record his job will likely be affected, and even more so as he was midway through the process of applying to join the police.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Today's rubbish cycling
(4520 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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A criminal record for a traffic offence? Surely not?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Apparently yes in the context of working in security or police. He's been told that it has to be declared to them.
Posted 11 years ago # -
So long as he just pays the fine, no criminal record...
http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/fixed-penalty-notices
A colleague of mine received a fixed penalty (£30) for cycling the wrong way down a one way street. He received little sympathy from either his cycling or non cycling workmates. Our line manager used the term "muppet" in the coffee room conversation, pretty sure it never reached HR.
It probably will be 'declarable' for applying to the Police, but wouldn't do any more 'damage' than having to declare any other minor traffic offence, say like 3 points for speeding. I once applied for a job with the Police, and traffic offences did need to be declared (even for a support role). I doubt it wil harm his chances.
Posted 11 years ago # -
that's shocking! would not have thought that fixed penalty notice counted as criminal record.
especially given supposed council policy re contraflows.
still does suggest he needs to learn to use cyclestreets
hope it doesn't put him off cycling.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@baldcyclist.. Thanks for the link. That's helped his worried mum..
@srd... he's already planning to get the bus again.. (Tough when he's on shifts). Might be a while before I can coax him into cycling again. I'd showed his mother the google route (Cyclestreets route wasn't good.), so I feel partially responsible.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Ah, that's a shame. So they did get stung with a notice then? It was about 8.35am this morning. But it was absolutely clear as clear can be that the road was one way. Signage everywhere. I think because it's changed traffic flow so many times over the past months due to tram works.
Posted 11 years ago # -
yep £50.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Someone seems pleased with themselves -
"
EdinburghCityPolice (@EdinCityPolice)
11/09/2013 19:37
12 tickets this am at Rutland Sq, Morrison St. Officers supporting national seatbeat day. Only one for belt though - so what were others?"
Posted 11 years ago # -
rutland sq / canning street signange isn't that clear. As you say, there's signage everywhere, and the access has changed back and forth over the past many months. However, some old signage hasn't been removed - it's just been turned around on the street furniture. There's no white lines denoting the end of 2-way and becoming one way; is a sign sufficient for that? Where exactly does the one-way start - adjacent to the street furniture? It's all in such a mess, I reckon anyone picked up there should refuse the FPN, go to court & challenge it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Confession time...
:-(
I got to the level crossing at Kirknewton this morning and the lights started flashing just as I got there. I could have stopped, but I know the hold there feels like ages (it is several minutes, though less than 5, I've timed it), so I stamped on the pedals and shot through (and the car behind me came too, but I bet he'd have stopped if I'd have stopped) - and the other side of the crossing there was a police van with a camera... I do feel guilty about it - if it had been a traffic light there's no question that I'd have stopped.Posted 11 years ago # -
*Raises hand
Failed to loop my rack bag straps through the correct bits of the rack yesterday morning, so the thing slipped a few inches off the back and completely obscured my rear light.
Probably says something about general lack of bike lighting in Glasgow that none of the passing cars mentioned anything.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"none of the passing cars mentioned anything"
Glasgow has talking cars??
Posted 11 years ago # -
@barnton-to-town That entire area is a complete pig's ear, I do agree. I've even been caught out myself on Queensferry Street Lane (no one-way signage anywhere!). Although the signage is messy and all over the shop around Canning Street, I think it's explicit enough for most people to understand that they can't get along past the Au Bar, although where you get off is really confusing; I hop off at Atholl Crescent Lane. That whole junction at the tram works is a nightmare :(
Posted 11 years ago # -
Yesterday afternoon, I saw a Royal Mail van along Canning Street go straight past the forest of 'No Entry' signs by Au Bar, and then turn left.
No sign of any police anywhere of course :/
Posted 11 years ago # -
Canning Street story -
Some of the commenters have a point (unfortunately).
Needs to be made legal with proper contra-flow.
Posted 11 years ago # -
They say in the article that no-one was fined - they were just given 'advice', contradicting what we were told earlier in the thread!
Posted 11 years ago # -
I don't see the big deal. The Police are doing a week long (well advertised) seat belt awareness campaign. THey are obviously being deployed to different areas each day, bored because everyone is wearing seat belts, so are dealing with other minor traffic offenses.
Lots of (mostly correct) comment about motorists doing dangerous things, but no rebuttal of the seat belt campaign? Many would argue (Ok, I) would) that not wearing a seatbelt, and cycling down a one way street are the same type of minor violation. Not likely to have any impact on anyone else but the perpetrator, but seat belt campaign OK, and targeting law breaking cyclists is not?
For balance, if the Police park themselves on Buccleuch Pl, they will likely catch me cycling along the pavement (slowly) twice a day. If they do, I'll likely sigh, and huff and puff, then grudgingly pay my £30, but really, d'ems the breaks. We all engage in minor law breaking, and should just man up when caught!
Posted 11 years ago # -
To quote DdF from the NiceWayCode thread:
Incidentally - presumably part of the same initiative - spokes also has just had an email from someone who said, "The police were set up on the corner of Canning St and Shandwick Place in the centre of Edinburgh. They were handing out fixed penalty notices to cyclists using this route to cross Shandwick place, for the offence of ignoring a no entry sign. This is despite a sign (admittedly damaged and rotated) excepting cycles (and buses and taxis) from the restriction. ... When I pointed the sign out to the police officer, he agreed that I had committed no offence, and let me on my way (though insisted that I not cycle, insisting that the empty intersection was dangerous). I think your readers may appreciate being made aware of this, so they can challenge any FPNs issued earlier. "
(Applies to the incident related by Claire & others)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Canning Street story -
Some of the commenters have a point (unfortunately).
I agree. The comment by Spokes:
"Cycling campaign group Spokes said the rebuke seemed “disproportionate” when so many motorists regularly carry out dangerous manoeuvres in the Capital."
doesn't do cyclists any favours, IMO.
BTW, I thought this was interesting:
"THE Scottish Government’s £500,000 Nice Way Code campaign came under attack last month after ads encouraged cyclists to weave into the middle of traffic
when overtaking buses."If it's safe to overtake a bus on the right (I'm assuming we're talking about buses stopped at bus stops), then I overtake the bus on the right. Why wouldn't I?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm not sure what current state of signage on Canning Street is, the stuff on Goggle Streetview I'm sure is out of date, but even back then is a confusing mix of one-way and two-way, with a "priority over oncoming vehicles" two-way sign visible in the same shot as a "one way" sign.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I work on Rutland Square. Every day I see at least 2-10 cars coming in the wrong way and causing chaos. Never seen a copper ensuring that they come a cropper'.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This caused a little bit of conversation in the office this morning. I'm interested in knowing what opinions people here have of it:
[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video Discuss...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Silly cyclist, car was indicating well before the undertake, and traffic was moving albeit slowly.
Good awareness by the driver, spotting the silly cyclist.Posted 11 years ago # -
Don't agree that car was indicating long before cyclist arrives, it seems to me to be a case that the car starts indicating just as the cyclist arrives at the rear wheel. Having said that, I wouldn't ride up the inside of a car like that, I would either have braked or seriously stepped on the gas to get ahead. I can't quite see if the car has an indicator on the side, but I assume it has so the guy on the bike should be aware of the car's intention.
Posted 11 years ago # -
^ take that back, it isn't so clear on my phone, the car was obviously indicating before the bike got there.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This is why I try and move out behind a car indicating left. The driver did the right thing though I think.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I've had that happen to me once - I found myself on the inside of a car indicating left (both I and the driver slowed to near stationary, then I got out of his way.) In my case I do not know whether I cycled inside the car, or whether the driver started to overtake and then realised it wouldn't work. I definitely wasn't paying attention, hence my vagueness about what happened.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It's difficult to pass judgement on that as that's the sort of position where communicating / making eye contact with the driver is all important.
In the cyclist's position, if I'd seen nothing to suggest the driver knew I was there I would have hung back (I may have right of way, but that probbaly wouldn't be too much comfort for me if the driver had flattened my front wheel or my right leg); alternatively, if I saw that the driver knew I was there and acknowledged my right to be there (either by a signal or by their driving) then I would proceed.
Posted 11 years ago # -
If I know there is a left junction coming up and Iam cycling straight on, would always try and move out into primary lane position before junction, regardless of "cycle lane" markings, as they do not always signal.
Posted 11 years ago #
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