I am not the police or some moral authority and am often quite zen about how vehicles are propelled but I will also point out Highway Code, or red box rules, etc. If provoked. With RLJ anyone can skip one, most folk could do two in a row but three is a pattern and people need to be discouraged from seeing a red as something to always jump, that is a bad habit. Similarly a straight ahead green filter arrow means straight ahead not turn left and plough into pedestrians and then not accept that you are at fault when you do it regularly. That cat provoked me too. Mostly mellow nowadays.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Today's rubbish cycling
(4503 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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@Kenny
The thing is that, even if a car is passing through the red light within a second of it changing, they are genenearlly accelerating to get there and so have a damn load of energy/ momentum.
As a jogger/ runner, pedestrian and accompanier of small children, I never find RLJing cyclists a threat. Almost all give way to pedestrians, and in any case being hit by a bike is survivable. Cyclists are much closer and more alarming on the canal tow path than they ever are RLJing.
When my wee boy was three he crossed over the thick white line on North Meadows Walk right into the line of a solid youngish guy on a montain bike and was sent flying. Cyclist was appologetic and concerned, despite doing nothing wrong. Wee boy just picked himself up and carried on unharmed.
Bikes represent such a low level of threat to other road users that it is irrational to expend your angst on RLJers. Almost all road users break laws all the time. The question has to be what is reasonable, and what does not put others at risk, and not what is strictly legal. This is certainly how the polis approach enforcement.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I'd suggest that saddling yourself with the burden of every other cyclists' bad behaviour hampers campaigning because you start on the back foot, you've handed your opponent a hurdle to make you jump over"
I think this is where the difference in opinion comes from, because I don't really see it as me saddling myself. Whenever I've tried in the past to do some good cycling publicity (whether at work, on the radio, whatever) one of the first responses is simply that cyclists ignore the Highway Code, usually red lights and pavements. I've not brought it up, I've been wholly positive, then someone comes out with that as a 'fact'. You can only get so far on the "but everyone breaks the rules no matter what mode of transport" line. I've not yet managed to come up with a counter that I'm happy with (ignoring it tends to come across as condoning the practice; condemning it means you're admitting there's a 'problem' when really there isn't; explaining why it isn't a problem comes across as a bit superior or sandal-wearing (oh but cyclists aren't a danger, the problem is you nasty people in cars etc etc).
Thing is, I do generally ignore cyclists running red lights, there was something so ridiculously blatant about this guy though, and for whatever reason it annoyed me enough to comment to him as we drew up at the lights. Then came the confusion of his response (I'd hoped Twitter might match us up so I could work out what on earth the conversation all meant, but sadly not).
Posted 9 years ago # -
oooooh, I so wish i had stayed Zen this morning. HaD COMMENT FROM a rolled down window of a very big car, grey - Bentley or maybe Chrysler copy. As traffic very slow I was able to ask politely what the comment was at the still rolled down window as we moved into grassmarket. Chap suggested I was in the wrong lane and should not have been shaking my head. [not at him he was somewhere behind me and not involved in anything that was going on but I had provoked him to comment]. What was going on was a large lorry attempting to turn right up lothian road from the straight ahead lane. I had earlier avoided being taken out by bus at the previous junction to then join the traffic queued at Old MAcDonald Cycles. I was in the wrong side of the lane for sure as I annoyed a car behind me by doing this and he was keen to take me out but as the lorry then held everything up that did not happen and I was well away and up Bread St and going past Sainsbury's at West Port when I receieved comment. When I then recieved clarification of comment about me being in the wrong lane I fear I was not zen - I suggested that the lorry may have been the vehicle in the wrong lane but the passenger felt it was me. This is where the Zen should have kicked in. Alas, to mix religions I ran out of road and Karma just at Fiddlers - i was trying to take Arobcomp's instruction about criticism needing to be applied to all road users and comments out windows not helping but should have just chilled. Came off in controlled way. nearly stayed upright. Must have given the bentley passenger a laugh as he was taken along the cowgate then turned up towards Chambers St in direction of court. Adding bentleys to list of BMWs as cars to be very zen around or else bad karma happens. Have torn strap on my toe clip but otherwise OK. Mea culpa.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Wilmington's Cow
Can I suggest as a response:
"Yes, some cyclists do break the laws of the road, as do some motorists. The difference is that the rule breaking motorist is in charge of 1-3 tonnes of hard metal car. This creates a hazard incomporably greater than anything caused by a rule breaking cyclist. We need to have a sense of proportion about those cyclists who, regretably, break rules."
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oh I've tried that approach, in a general discussion once at work about the number of incidents in the city on stats recently released from the police. The response was, "Yeah, but how many of the people knocked down by cars were caused by the drivers having to swerve to avoid cyclists breaking the law?"
I decided it was better to leave the discussion at that point. It seems that with bikes proportion goes out of the window, and rule breaking cyclists are satanic individuals. Any attempt to note the number of drivers speeding, injuring, killing, etc. is met with a wall of "that's different" with no explanation as to why (though we all know it's cos they drive and do break the speed limit and so on, so it's personally justified).
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Yeah, but how many of the people knocked down by cars were caused by the drivers having to swerve to avoid cyclists breaking the law?"
My response to non-questions such as that would usually be "I don't know, how many? I bet you don't know either. Or else show me your data set and allow me to analyse it, test your hypothesis and draw my own conclusions from it".
Posted 9 years ago # -
I liked how it was put to me just the other day....
"Show me a cyclist jumping a red light and I'll show you an arsehole. Show me a motorist jumping a red light and I'll show you a very dangerous arsehole"
Posted 9 years ago # -
^ this
Posted 9 years ago # -
@kaputnik, more or less matched my response, but what you've got to realise with someone coming out with something like that is that logic goes out of the window. The response was simply, "I don't know, but I'm sure it was most of them"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yesterday, I managed a front-wheel-lock skid, with spikeyknobbles, on cobbles, turning right into Lauriston Street from High Riggs, when I decided to give way to someone who had not yet turned in from West Port but looked as if they were going to and not slow down so to do.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Today's rubbish logic is from the chap on the MTB on the pavement on East Fountain bridge. I asked why he wasn't on the road, he replied that it was one way. I laughingly informed him that was the opposite of a good answer.
If it had been a shared use path I concede I'd have put him in the Good Cycling thread since his approach to my rear and to the pedestrian in front of me was politely announced and carefully slow.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Boden clad bourgeoise transporting small child on the rear rack of her bicycle on Forest Road at lunchtime. Get expelled from her book circle for that sort of thing.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Used to always bring youngest back home from brownies on bike rack but I had cushion in panniers and indeed ortlieb panniers so legs not caught in spokes. 'Twas often the most eventful thing in BAlerno that night. As all things must pass, her last night of brownies after the half term. She thinks scouts would be good given the stuff they do but the only problem is full of boys.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The rack in question (Blackburn top deck I think) has a load limit of 20kg. The child had a mass of at least 40kg. This is not Portland, nor yet Amsterdam.
Posted 9 years ago # -
40kg, that is a Boden pie eating child
On the same bike as small brownie child gets go on the Blackburn rack - Spesh crossroads with nexus 8 replaced by sturmey 3 I gave my wife a backie a couple of years ago after a small soirée. Definitely the most eventful thing that happened in Balerno that night.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Swapped an SA key this afternoon. A little later I found something which looks a lot like the thing on the end of the clutch spring.
I'm not sanguine about the girls in Scouts thing. It means they have to find female leaders. Yes, I've heard the song about My Lord Montague of Beaulie.
It's not a two way street. Boys don't joint the Guides and I wonder if this might lead to the demise of the Guides.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Dads picking up daughters at guides also slightly cool. Brownies fine.
Folds check out the mountain bike audax thread there is a two ronnies reference you might like being a barker fan.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Guides seems to be rebranding itself very much as a feminist organisation. Which in itself might be an argument for allowing boys to join...
Posted 9 years ago # -
As far as I know boys are allowed but they don't whereas there were lots of girls in the Cubs/Scouts that my boys went to.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The guy who decided to cycle through the red light at the West end of the Meadows as I was about to cycle over the toucan crossing which had already been on green for bikes and pedestrians for a good few seconds as I approached it. We both braked heavily and just avoided a collision (extra impressive given that I was using toe clips for the third time so far). He admitted that it was "his bad" to which I replied in agreement and suggested that he shouldn't cycle through red lights. He continued on his way as the lights changed. I had to back up to press the button and wait...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Double-whammy... This morning I suffered a rare wheel-sucker on the canal towpath. I first became aware of it when Lilac Helmet Lady unexpectedly gave way to me on the aqueduct, just before I was going to give way to her, given that she was already half-way over when I joined. As I exited, I glanced behind to see a blue cyclist on my tail. I initially dawdled, then sped up to full speed briefly before dwadling again, during the entirity of which they remained right behind me. At this point I waved to them to overtake and asked if they wanted to do so just to be clear. The guy replied that he was taking the next exit and that I was a good pacesetter (apparently despite wild changes in pace). I replied saying in that case would he mind keeping his distance, to which he asked if I was going to stop suddenly. I replied that I didn't plan to, but who knew what might happen. Just before he exited he asked if I knew whether my back light was on. I replied to let him know that I knew it was on before giving him a final wave (more of relief than anything) as he exited.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Triple-whammy... As I was leaving Heriot-Watt this evening I encountered a cyclist making a meal of the slope on the path by the recycling centre. I slowed down as I prepared to descend, but then had to abruptly stop as he all but weaved across the path into the front of me. I probably should have rung my bell on approach given that he was presumably studying the ground rather than looking where he was going, although I think that my front light caught his eye at the critical moment allowing him to avoid me.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Over-dressed.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Instography
Absolutely - I was boil in the bag today- not pleasant. Summer kit will be making its way from the back of the drawer to the front and may be used.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So I avoided any bad cycling yesterday (other than my jerky first try at riding an electric bike around the Heriot-Watt Campus perhaps), but then endured a triple-whammy in the space of about a minute this morning...
Emerging west from the canal bridge with the metal chicances by Fountainbridge, I found that a guy was riding straight at me along the middle of the towpath. He was clearly day-dreaming, suddenly reacting to my presence and moving back over to the left. Not so bad.
I then experienced two cyclists deciding to overtake a pedestrian who was walking towards me on the far side of the path, which meant that they had to achieve this by moving to their right and blocking 'my' side of the path. The first cyclist might not have been too bad, but the second would definitely have forced me to slow down if it were not for the fact that he also had a dog on a lead to his right, forcing me to come to a complete stop to avoid running over the dog. Annoying.
Finally, a guy overtook me shortly after that while I was moving back over to the left after overtaking a pedestrian. Again, this wasn't all that bad, but the complete silence with which he did this and the fact that he was moving quickly given that he was riding an electric bike made it worse, and I was already annoyed.
Just for good measure, I then had to wait for a stream of several cyclists and pedestrians heading towards me under the next bridge before I went for a gap, only to have to deal with another two pedestrians who decided to continue under the bridge despite my bell ringing...
Posted 9 years ago # -
The joys of ActiveTravel on inadequate infrastructure!
One problem is that are no agreed 'rules' or 'etiquette'.
And no sanction to encourage any 'common' sense.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Indeed and oh well... At least my subsequent wildlife spotting out of town made up for the above irritation.
Posted 9 years ago # -
[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video Posted 9 years ago # -
Looks like you're up for the commuter challenge then!
Posted 9 years ago #
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