CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
@wingpig People overtaking when people are approaching is a pet hate of mine on the NEPN, particularly when in involves pedestrians. But from the number of times I see it, I thought that it was just me.
People should try walking it during rush hour and see how it feels when two cyclists try to squeeze past. It is rather similar to a car overtaking your bike when there is oncoming traffic.
I often find that I pass someone on the road, only to find them up my mudguards in Roseburn park as I slow to what I deem to be a more appropriate rate of knots. Journeys by bike in Edinburgh can be so fragmentary between road, path and "other" shared use facilities that you really need to have multiple mindsets and attitudes/styles in your cycling inventory. I guess for some people they either have a single mindset or sometimes forget that they're no longer having to cycle defensively on the road and they can slow down a bit and take it easier and if they wait 20 seconds they'll be able to get past without causing a conflict.
Yep, the inappropriate "I'll just squeeze through" manoeuvres on NEPN get up my nose. This is my first summer riding it so I wasn't sure if it was just a feature of "just started riding and I can't remember how to be polite" but frankly most of the people I see doing this don't like noobs.
@kaputnik - nicely put. I have often found myself in the situation of having to defend cyclists using the road when "there is a perfectly good cycle path" etc… it's all part of the same argument. If you are going to use a shared use cycle path with pedestrians then you should expect to behave courteously, and if you are in a hurry then I'd not be using a shared path. As I'm quite unfit I'm grateful for the opportunity to slow down, but I'd hope I'd behave as wingpig does even if I were able to go faster.
Riding in London this morning it was even more obvious than usual that much of the bad cycling is a product of worse driving, speeding encroaching motorbikes and bad design. Almost everyone was riding defensively which could be construed as bad cycling but actually all seemed to flow rather well...
"...I'd hope I'd behave as wingpig does..."
Including the muttering?
I have been practicing but unfortunately I'm still intelligible, so I'll keep trying
I just had another listen with all the volume dials maxed out and I could only just hear the muttering because I knew what to listen for (and when). So hats off to @condor2378.
If the NEPN were a road, would the SNP have promised to dual it by now?
But seriously, how hard would it be to widen sections of it by a couple of metres?
@chug there's many bits of the NEPN and other Edinburgh paths where you could reclaim a few feet for free by scraping the accumulated muck, leafmulch and grass overgrowth off the existing tarmac.
Someone cycling along MMW southwards yesterday evening with an open glass-looking bottle in one hand. It was about the size and shape of a chunky brown beer bottle but I could't be certain what it contained, nor if it was being drunk from, but reducing your ability to control your bike with something which would smash if you had to drop it suddenly is a bit daft.
Was on the cycle path and on the exit path to Sainsbury's this morning. Suddenly I hear a warning shout and to my horror a guy on a racing bike had ignored the give way markings and was absolutely hammering it. Very close call and he ended up in the bushes, thankfully unhurt.
No apologies from him but I certainly gave some feedback.
Further to recent discussions about overtaking pedestrians on the NEPN when someone's approaching on a bike going the other way, I witnessed this example tonight....
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The canal towpath is worse in terms of overtaking peds as a. More peds and b. Narrower path. I go with if I am going to get level with the peds first then I am Going for the overtake. If the other person is going to get there first then I am going to brake and pull in behind the ped. The cyclists coming in the other direction don't always see it that way. Mostly peace in the valley but occasional cyclist not happy they had to stop (if they stop) presumably as they were operating on the principle - I am on the correct side so I have precedence?
The NEPN is maybe worse because the speeds that can be generated are faster?
@threefromleith, I'm not sure that was the overtaking cyclists fault. The cyclist in front of you appears to head towards the middle of the path at the busy point, almost as if he was trying (rather badly) to make a point.
@gembo, I rarely use the canal path but would probably be the not happy cyclist in that scenario. I'd treat it like a road and not overtake until it was clear to do so. It's much more annoying to have to stop and let oncoming traffic clear than to plod along slowly behind a pedestrian for a short time.
......or maybe the cyclist in front thinks the overtaker is going to remain on the extreme left of the path and moves to the middle to avoid. I can't really see any reason why the overtaker makes the move she does when there is something coming. She certainly seems to be making a meal of the manoeuvre at any rate and seems to stop in the middle of it. The video isn't that clear TBH.
It's a shared path with everything that implies; everyone should be considerate, and the more experienced you are (man with blue Berghaus backpack) the more you should be careful. Like @acsimpson says, looks like the person in yellow was passing the pedestrian giving a wide berth and blue backpack thought "* if I'm going to slow down", and tried to pass between the pedestrian and the cyclist. Then at the last second yellow jacket pulled in left. If blue pack had just taken his foot off the gas a fraction there wouldn't have been a problem.
I'd actually say 'both' should really have waited. Certainly when I'm on a shared path and there's a ped ahead and bikes coming the other way, I'll drop to walking pace behind the ped until the bikes have gone by.
Ped overtaker clearly didn't have space to complete the overtake (put this into road context she has overtaken a tractor without time to do so without oncoming traffic having to brake) and blue backpack should have been more aware and slowed, rather than looking for an ill judged gap just so (it seems) he wouldn't have to slow down.
I'm of the belief that whoever is approaching behind any pedestrians (regardless of the side of the path that the pedestrians might be at) should give way to those coming in the other direction, unless they have enough time and space to safely complete an overtake, otherwise there is a greater risk of the pedestrians becoming confused, reacting and causing a collision.
In threefromleith's video example, the woman in yellow clearly should have slowed down and waited behind the woman with the child and pushchair... However, given that she had already started to overtake, the guy in front of threefromleith should have held his line and started slowing down, ready to come to a complete stop.
About 9:25am, traffic light junction on Blackford Ave/West Savile Terrace, heading up to KB from Blackford Ave. Lights are red so rather than stopping the cyclist ahead of me does the nip off to the left lane to W Savile Terrace thing, crosses over, then attempts to come back on to Blackford Avenue on the left filter lane off W Savile Terrace. This map shows it better. But the light is also red on the W.Savile-> Blackford lane, so cyclist cycles up the path for a bit (because obviously this is so much better than running a red light) then eventually rejoins the actual road a fair way past the bus stop. By which time all the lights have changed and I have set off, and I'm exactly as far behind him as I was before the red lights. Seriously, just stop at the red lights. Given kit and speed I'd say a seasoned rider, so should know better.
I think both were to blame, but I'd attribute a higher portion to the guy in front of me. Having been behind him since Roseburn, he really wasn't for slowing down much at any point for anyone*. He had a bit of time to see her move out and start the overtake, but didn't ease off until it was almost too late.
*(He certainly didn't slow in the slightest or check for anyone coming at the Craigleith 'Give Way' path junction. Sailed straight over at speed).
Hard to see on the video (especially with YouTube's hideous compression), but it was much more obvious when you were there!
It can be tricky judging the speed of oncoming traffic, so I'd go a bit easier on the cyclist overtaking.
The cyclist in front of the camera had a great view, only had to slow down a little to avoid any conflict whatsoever, but deliberately chose not to do so.
Even if you agree that technically he had right of way, its a really rubbish, very aggressive attitude for a shared path.
it's too hard to tell whether the oncoming cyclist was at fault here in any way in my opinion - as Bikeability says a misjudgement of oncoming speed may be a factor here, but I think the behaviour of the cyclist in front was really aggressive and unnecessary.
I'm with WC and jdanielp in that if the pedestrian is on my side, I will slow and wait to pass if there is someone coming the other way.
It can be difficult to judge the other bikes speed in these situations so I am fairly forgiving when other people don't do the same but some cyclists are either oblivious to the situation or just don't care.
There are fairly good sight lines on the NEPN so you can normally see this situation coming a mile off. It's also easy to see whether the other cyclist has eased off the gas to wait behind but many just keep on pedalling regardless of who is around them.
"Even if you agree that technically he had right of way, its a really rubbish, very aggressive attitude for a shared path."
There's the thing. There isn't any 'right of way' on a path like this; it's all negotiated space, and blue backpack just wasn't prepared to negotiate. Very aggressive.
Pedantry dictates I must point out that everyone on that oath on a bike or walking has right of way at all times no matter who is around. What changes (or rather doesn't, because as is pointed out its negotiated space with no distinct rules on this) is 'priority'.
'Give away' signs do blur the distinction annoyingly, should really be 'Cede Priority'.
I'm interested in a defence of the cyclist overtaking the pedestrian being that she may have just misjudged the speed of the cyclist coming the other way. Undoubtedly that may be true, but just to throw it in there, if a car ahead was overtaking another car into the face of a cyclist and came within a whisker of a nasty crash (as here) would we accept the driver saying, "sorry, I misjudged your speed"?
As others have said, the sigh lines are pretty good and I just think a bit of looking ahead determines that the cyclists coming the other way 'may' get there before I do (as I say, that's usually my approach, which yes does sometimes mean I sometimes dawdle thinking, they're going slower than I thought, which is me misjudging the speed, but realising that's a possibility and so erring on the side of caution rather than taking a chance).
At the same time it is abundantly clear (especially with TFL's knowledge from sitting behind backpack boy) that he was an aggressive soul, and that sort of riding has no place on a shared use oath, and he also should have been looking ahead and noted that she was overtaking, and slowed rather than gone for an utterly barmy gap that wasn't there
That's really why I think there's fault on both side. Initially if she chooses not to overtake right there and then there's no incident; and if he, on noticing that she IS overtaking, slows down then there's no incident. Better actions by either sees nothing happen (and better actions by both is utopia).
Well, yesterday really - and it was me. So busy keeping an eye on the car to my left coming out of the work car park at the same time as me that I pulled out without looking right - straight into the path of a van....
Luckily they've recently started enforcing a 10mph limit on Co grounds, so he stopped a van-length away from me. I apologised and admitted it was my fault entirely, whilst he just sat glowering, earphones in, shaking his head.
Felt such an idiot & so embarrassed. There's never EVER been anything coming that way before in the 9 years I've been cycling, so just the thing that there was the day I made my first mistake there.
Was me crossing the A71 just north of Heriot-Watt campus this morning. I turned left from Hermiston House Road, bumped up onto the pavement and cycled along to the traffic island crossing. Whilst I would usually get off and push my bike across the road when a suitable gap in the traffic emerged, given the lack of vehicle noise this morning, I decided to consider cycling over the road and traffic island in one go so I had a look behind me (west) and ahead of me (east) and, having spotted no traffic in sight in either direction, I then proceeded to cycle over the road. All was going well as I cycled across the east-bound carriageway. A I bumped across the traffic island, I became aware of movement to my left, and realised that a car was bearing down on me along the other side! However, momentum meant that I was likely to continue out into the west-bound carriageway to some extent however I reacted at that point so I kept on going and somehow made it over the road in one piece, waving to apologise in the process.
I'm not sure what happened in retrospect. The car was quite a dull, brown in colour so maybe it merged into the background as I looked in that direction? Perhaps it had been parked at the bus stop layby and pulled out just after I had looked? A car had been behind me on Hermiston House Road and turned left just after I did, passing me on the road as I proceeded along the pavement - perhaps it then performed an unexpected U turn that I somehow didn't notice? In any case, it seems that the car wasn't travelling at all quickly because the driver didn't appear to have any problem slowing to avoid me, but I am still extremely concerned about my lack of awareness of it. I think I will enforce the get off and push my bike across the road policy with myself from now on anyway.
The cyclist travelling west on the George St bike lane at around 5pm yesterday, shouting aggressively at pedestrians that they "should wait for the green man".
The pedestrians looked like lost/confused tourists, or did not know the bike lane was there. What an experience of Edinburgh for them. The cyclist could have been a lot more diplomatic.
Bloke who squeezed past me on the inside as I went from Fountainbridge onto Semple Street.
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