and the "classic" 4x4 (as opposed to Chelsea Tractor in my undoubtedly biased opinion ;-)) is approx 1.6m wide and 3.6m long (My swb S3)
Which just goes to show how bloated modern vehicles have become! ;-)
A quick google shows a BMW 550i is:
Length4899 mm - 16'1"Width1860 mm - 6'1" - exc. mirrors
and does about 20mpg round town, of course if we can't stretch to a 5 series and old XR4i Ford is still a little wider than a Landrover at 1.7m wide and considerably longer at 4.4m long.
My point is this, I don't disagree that SOME 4x4's are fat, pointless and un-necessary... but just because a proportion of their drivers are unable to manouvre them with consideration does not mean they are inherently a bad thing. Nor are they automatically bigger and / or thirstier than "conventional" cars. Life is simply not that black and white. I have relatives who have a Diahatsu Terios, a tiny little, very manouvreable 4x4 with a small petrol engine. I know another person with a *large* BMW saloon, I know which I consider the most wasteful!
I do understand the point, and the frustration/fear caused by idiots misusing probably unsuitable vehicles. But to suggest that one particular type, in this case "4x4's" are more guilty than others is to fall into the stereotyping beloved of the daily rags, and we don't like it when we are all classed by the actions of the worst cyclists... why should we do it to others?
Hence why earlier in the thread my intention was to indicate that I had experienced a larger than usual number of council bin lorries being badly/aggressively driven, NOT to suggest that ALL their drivers do so.
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