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Do we need an EU referendum thread? (Brexit thread)

(3978 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from chdot

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  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Scots should, in my view, pay close attention to what happens in Northern Ireland. I see their society as both more polarised than ours and more immediately threatened by London's actions in respect of the EU due to the presence of the land border with the republic and the history of violence. Their situation has some aspects of a hair-trigger (erk..) version of ours.

    I'm only wiki-wise on the SDLP and Alliance, but it looks to me like some people might be flirting with the notion of keeping the island of Ireland as an economic and political unit.

    We'll see what London makes of that in due course.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    "reggie bosanquet "

    He was ITN rather than BBC, was he not? Back then ITN were often breaking stories before the Beeb. Plus ça change...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Liam Fox plans 'Empire 2.0' to replace the European Union. (Second and subsequent paras behind paywall, but the first para is quite enough - these people are utterly deluded.)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. PS
    Member

    Liam Fox. Dear me.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. cb
    Member

    ahem

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Gotcha, @cb. Paywall easily defeated at the Times and scepticism quite reasonable;

    Britain will seek to boost trade links with African Commonwealth nations this week in a move described by Whitehall officials as “empire 2.0”.

    Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, will promise to build better links with the 52-member organisation when ministers from each country meet in London on Thursday and Friday.

    Britain plans to promise all developing nations that their trading relationships with the UK will stay the same or improve after Brexit, guaranteeing that they will not get worse. Ministers want to go further with African nations, however, and start talks to allow Britain to work more closely with an African free trade zone.

    “They want to be able to start talking about African free trade deals this week,” a Whitehall source said. The Commonwealth agreed in 2011 to begin formal negotiations to create an African free trade area covering 26 countries from the Cape to Cairo.

    Under one plan discussed in Whitehall work on trade relations with African nations could continue until next year when Britain hosts the Commonwealth heads of government meeting in the spring. A deal could then be signed. Whitehall sources say that they also hope to have the outline of deals with Australia, New Zealand and possibly Canada by this stage.

    Britain is increasingly bullish that it can begin talks after the Article 50 negotiations commence but before Brexit without suffering any punishment by the European Commission. The “empire 2.0” description was coined by sceptical officials worried about the high priority given to trade deals with Commonwealth nations.

    Tim Farron, the Liberal Democrat leader, said: “Trade with our friends in the Commonwealth is important but Boris is deluding himself if he thinks this will replace trade with our European allies. That idea is for the birds. The government can think whatever they want but you cannot have a profitable trade policy with a hard Brexit.”

    Trade specialists dismiss the notion that Britain could strike a free-trade deal with the Commonwealth in its entirety because of the number and diversity of the countries involved. Most already have some preferential access to the EU or are negotiating a free-trade deal. Experts urged the government to use the Commonwealth trade talks to discuss the extension of existing deals, like that with South Africa and the recent agreement with Canada.

    Lord Marland, chairman of the Commonwealth enterprise and investment council, said that the meeting would explore ways to boost trade between the countries. “When the UK joined the EU it tore up its previous agreements with Commonwealth allies and it will now need to set about rebuilding these relationships for trade,” he said. “Luckily these are old friendships, but as with all relationships, they will require a lot of effort to make them work.”

    Ministers will also discuss implementing the World Trade Organisation’s recent trade facilitation agreement. The shared legal and linguistic heritage of Commonwealth nations reduces trading costs between them by an average of 19 per cent, according to research commissioned by the body in 2015.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. cb
    Member

    Possibly a relief that the "Empire 2.0" tag was coined by sceptics, although no doubt some in government rather like the idea.

    I happened to hear this Quentin Letts programme on The Commonwealth some time back.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07nrlql

    I seem to recall that he gave the impression that he thought that we could just switch allegiance from the EU to The Commonwealth and all would be fine.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    we could just switch allegiance from the EU to The Commonwealth and all would be fine

    If I was the head of the government of Kenya, or Malaysia or South Africa or any of the other countries who have been on the sharp end of British military innovation I'd be dancing a jig at the thought of Liam Fox flying in looking for a deal to a deadline he's no control over.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. PS
    Member

    "Fox of Khartoum" has a nice ring about it (metaphorically, of course).

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. LaidBack
    Member

    South Africa is short of water.

    "South Africa will probably need to import about 970,000 tons of corn in the year to April and 5 million tons of corn in the following 12 months as rainfall declined to the least since at least 1904, according to Grain SA, the biggest farm lobby."
    from Bloomberg

    Brextannia has loads - mainly in the northern annex though!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The Flying Fox of Khartoum!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. LaidBack
    Member

    Never mind the Times here's Bella (!)

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/03/06/empire-2-0/

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Only in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would you get an archbishop talking in parliament about the rights and wrongs of plebiscites on membership of supra-national bodies without provoking widespread disbelief.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. mgj
    Member

    Well, in the absence of any compromise on Brexit, we shall have Indyref 2.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. LaidBack
    Member

    T May will be extra irritated.
    Still she knew this would happen and will appeal again that we should all 'stay stupid together' :-)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. LaidBack
    Member

    In case anyone thinks that trade outside the EU is easier....

    These parts are only going to Reykjavik (!)

    7 forms required as outwith EU. We sent parts to Finland and that's just same paperwork as here. Of course you could argue we shouldn't be sending parts anywhere and everyone should make them locally. Also aware that a package from Edinburgh will go via LHR as that is how TNT do it.


    What Brexit looks like
    by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    Will citizens of other EU countries be allowed to vote in indyref2, as they were in 2014?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. gembo
    Member

    Should be for Scottish people only and no one over 60 should be allowed to vote because they will all be dead

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. LaidBack
    Member

    65 surely? :-)
    By Scottish people do you mean people living in Scotland?
    People with Scottish tax code?
    I'd like EU and rUK people to vote as this should be about where you live, not where you were born.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. crowriver
    Member

    "this should be about where you live, not where you were born."

    Which it was last time.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Yes I thought the good thing about Indyref 1 was the inclusive way it was decided who had a vote. Bringing age down to 16 as independence would have a bigger impact on the young. Not extending the mandate to jocks abroad as they don't live here.

    This open and inclusive approach was in contrast to some commentators after the defeat who blamed various groups, e.g. Old people.. The thing about old people is they will vote of course, maybe just not the way we would like them to.

    I was just being daft with my under 60 scots only conditions. I would hope they go with the same mandate as before and the 16 year olds offset the grumpy oldies. Still need to get more weegees out of their beds?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A total of 72 per cent of 16-24 year olds back independence compared to 26 per cent of people aged 65-plus.

    "

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-polling-expert-warns-sturgeon-10029333

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "

    TechnicallyRon (@TechnicallyRon)
    15/03/2017, 10:35
    David Davies telling the select committee his ideas for Brexit

    http://pic.twitter.com/0is76elWhO

    "

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    Think the last post was comedy, not sure about this -

    "

    The British government has not carried out an assessment of what effect leaving the European Union without a new trade deal would have on the economy, Brexit minister David Davis said on Wednesday.

    "

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-davis-assesment-idUKKBN16M15X

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    So this website has a video message from the Prime Minister and the message is that the vote last June was "an instruction to change the way our whole country works".

    I didn't notice that on my ballot paper. I wonder if people might have campaigned harder had they known?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    "

    The SNP call it a “hard Tory Brexit” for good measure, pushing the lie that the evil Westminster bogeyman is actively seeking a “hard Brexit”, even though the Government’s clearly stated objective is to negotiate a comprehensive trade agreement.

    "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/europe-likes-huff-puff-will-agree-sensible-brexit-deal-end/

    Posted 7 years ago #
  27. SRD
    Moderator

    SNP has just passed a motion that would enfrancise non-EU, non-commonwealth residents

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. LaidBack
    Member

    @SRD - That is why calling the referendum is useful.

    Anyone who has chosen to set up home in Scotland should be able to vote.

    Ruth D will now tell us why this is a bad idea.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. sallyhinch
    Member

    "Ruth D will now tell us why this is a bad idea."

    Is she on this forum?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. wee folding bike
    Member

    She's usually on a tank.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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