Pity the BBC didn't make the connection between the £700m 'invested' in new roads; new roads generating new traffic; and new traffic generating new pollution.
So £700m spent increasing pollution, £3m spent decreasing it.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
BBC Scotland Investigates: Car Sick
(70 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
-
Yes. as you say the 'investment' word is always used with roads. Once their built they cost nothing to run - as if.
Compare and contrast with the common view that cycling is a cost (aka sop to special interest group)- as are railways.
Airports are an investment. Many people fly several times a year. I have someone flying up from Birmingham because the railway is broken due to climate change. (!)Posted 9 years ago # -
This has just been rehashed as a segment of Scotland 2016, with a head to head between Richard Dixon from Friends Of The Earth and the execrable Alan Douglas, banging on about people being "afraid of the cycling lobby" and the usual crap anecdotes about cyclists "not using the infrastructure that's been built for them" (A9 path cited as an example). The FoE guy was very robust in his response, reminding us that the road lobby have had 60 or 70 years getting their way, and it was time to "re-balance" transport spending away from roads and to invest in walking, cycling and public transport.
Posted 9 years ago # -
1.9% of the budget says it all.
The guy who was the ex-mayor (?) of Copenhagen talked about how they treated the bicycle as equal to the car.
By only giving 1.9% of the budget, the Scottish government is treating walking and cycling as though, combined, they're worth 1/50th of a car...
... and then they wonder why they're not meeting their active travel targets.
If they want 10% of journeys by bike, then they should spend a minimum of 10% of their budget on cycling infrastructure.
And, as Crowdriver pointed out, there has been 60-70 years of over-investing in car infrastructure - which means under-investing in cycling infrastructure.
So, maybe, for 10 years or so, cycling should get 15% of the budget. Just to catch up a bit.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm always surprised by those in the SNP who cite Denmark and the Netherlands as examples of role model small countries that an independent Scotland could be like, yet seem utterly opposed to copying their transport infrastructure. Don't they get the connection with the quality of life there?
Posted 9 years ago # -
The usual "it's not our fault" from government. "A change of culture" is required, apparently, rather than some proper leadership from the top.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I was quite pleased to see Richard Dixon from FoE noting Edinburgh's "popular and well used" cycle paths and the plans for a segregated route through the city centre.
Glasgow making progress in this area too, though from a lower base. I suspect Edinburgh will be the exceptional case for years to come in Scotland.....if we can aim for Cambridge levels of cycling we'll be doing well.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Don't they get the connection with the quality of life there?"
Clearly not!
Which is a bit surprising seeing as they made a lot of 'cleaner/greener/smarter/etc'.
I thought they meant it - more than Cameron's 'greenest Gov ever'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"The usual "it's not our fault" from government."
Yep - more 'up to LAs' from Mackay' - of course he's part of a Gov which has restricted the amount LAs have to spend (while maintaining the "fully funded" doublespeak).
" "A change of culture" is required, apparently, rather than some proper leadership from the top."
Yes, and Mackay more or less said 'it's up to people to say they want a change of culture'.
Do 'most people' still want capital punishment'?
Politicians are very selective about when they do things that 'people won't like'.
Having done drink driving and smoking in public places, you'd think there would be more concern/willingness to take 'active travel'/more restrictions on car use seriously.
BUT
As the ex-mayor said - 'Denmark didn't have a car industry'"...
Posted 9 years ago # -
When the SNP talk about 'Scandinavia' they don't mean Sweden or Denmark, but Norway. You know, wealthy oil-rich place where people drive expensive cars and the roads are terrific...
Unfortunately they don't have the faintest scooby as to how Norway runs things. For example, in areas like taxation, child care, education, land reform, public transport, Norway is far more progressive and forward thinking than anything the Scottish government has come up with (or is likely to, given the way they water down anything half radical).
Part of this is no doubt "cultural" (vis the great system of free huts on Norwegian hills and mountains fully stocked with food, etc.). We tend to forget we are part of the Anglo-Saxon, Laissez Faire, free market imperial culture (whether we want to be or not). We're really very different from the Scandinavians in our ways of behaving, our cultural and political expectations.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Having done drink driving and smoking in public places, you'd think there would be more concern/willingness to take 'active travel'/more restrictions on car use seriously."
Neither of these were done by the SNP. Labour in both cases, I think. The only ban imposed by the SNP was on singing certain songs/using certain language at football matches. Symbolic, be nice to each other and behave politics.
"As the ex-mayor said - 'Denmark didn't have a car industry'"..."
Denmark didn't discover oil in the North Sea either. That factor has helped Scotland become such a motor vehicle dominated place, that and geography (outside the central belt at least).
In Denmark cycling rates are lower outside Copenhagen. There are even variations in the Netherlands: Rotterdam "only" 16% modal share for example (similar to Cambridge).
So I think we need to make a distinction between Edinburgh and the rest of Scotland. Glasgow is trying some good things, but at the moment Edinburgh is exceptional in terms of cycling modal share. Plummeting oil prices (feeding through to lower fuel prices) mean that is not about to change any time soon.
Posted 9 years ago # -
the 'execrable Alan Douglas' got my back up when he started saying, "Well, the motor car is here to stay... And it's always gonna pollute... And well pollution's just gonna happen..."
Posted 9 years ago # -
Luckily the execrable Alan Douglas won't always be here. He's looking unhealthily overweight, like so many keen motorists seem to once they reach a certain age.
Posted 9 years ago # -
And annoyingly, the BBC had to 'balance' the piece with the driver who "has" to commute by car.
No mention of her:
- moving closer to where she works
- moving closer to a train/bus station
- finding a job locally, etc.A brief mention of parking & riding, but no, that would be too inconvenient for her.
Another point missed by the BBC: Basically, people who don't want to drive their commute set their lives up so they don't have to (and vice versa)!
Posted 9 years ago # -
If I were mayor, I'd go further than gibbo:
- 25% of the transport budget maintaining existing roads (no new roads, no junction 'improvements', no £1m electronic gantry signs telling you the bl**ding obvious, etc)
- 25% on public transport
- 50% on active travel & public realm improvements(I doubt that 'only' 15% on active travel would be enough to ever catch up with the Netherlands/Denmark - sorry gibbo)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Aye, but that's not going to happen. After all, the SNP are committed to spending £3 billion+ on duelling the A9 even when traffic volumes cannot possibly justify it. Completing the M74 when cities around the world are demolishing urban motorways.
Etc. ad nauseam.
It's just buying off their core supporters in the SNP heartland, nothing more.
Don't expect any vision from the SNP other than "everything will be great after independence".
Until then, business as usual.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"And annoyingly, the BBC had to 'balance' the piece with the driver who "has" to commute by car."
Actually I think the journalist was having a sly dig at her intransigence. The repeated incredulity that she had not even considered trying the train, even for fun, was telling.
Of course, keen motorists won't get that, they'll just see confirmation of their own choices.
Posted 9 years ago # -
We have one forumer (at least) living in the Borders. He does use train sometimes but it actually makes sense for him to use car share. Knock on of ever cheaper fuel versus train fares that are inflating.
Even if he does use train he has 12 miles to drive which on smaller roads would take as long to get over Soutra.
Now the A68 has the Dalkeith bypass takes you to edge of Edinburgh in 25mins from where he lives. Of course it takes longer to get in from city limit and he does use Park and Ride too. Cycled from Sherrifhall a bit too.The woman interviewed didn't seem to want to consider car share.
Many forumers cycle to avoid being squeezed in with other people on buses and trains so although we have differences with intense car users (and motorbikers) we do like the idea of 'personal' transport.Basically what annoys us on the CCE forum is the assumption that a car is what everyone would want to own and drive. Will watch Google / Tesla for semi-automatic car developments though!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm watching the programme now. I find it depressing that despite the many good reasons backed by hard facts the politicians don't do anything serious to move people in the necessary direction and much of the public have their heads in the sand
Posted 9 years ago # -
@amir I agree it's depressing...
I starting transcribing what the minister said but it's so tepid it's hard to keep the will to live.
"Are our Councils and political leaders doing enough to protect us?"
"Well, I think that emissions and clean air is certainly more of a topic now than it was before. I hope that local authorities reflect on that.
We've had a consensual debate in parliament about action that should be undertaken and that now has to work their way through local government as well.
There are a range of powers that can be deployed to make an impact locally and I'd encourage leaders to take this very seriously."-------
"So how much are we spending now?"
"In terms of Active Transport it's a record level of £39m. That's the highest ever investment in Active Travel."
"1.9% of your budget. Is that right?"
"It's still £39m. It's still at a record level. It's about behavioural change as well. It's not just about throwing money at certain projects. It's about the culture we want to deliver. That is about encouraging more people on to Active Travel: walking & cycling; ensuring infrastructure is there; That there are facilities if people want to use it also"
Posted 9 years ago # -
"ensuring infrastructure is there; That there are facilities if people want to use it"
And how are those facilities going to appear if they aren't funded? Infrastructure fairies?
Posted 9 years ago # -
"It's about behavioural change as well."
Ah, the fantasy of "behavioural change".
I guess to people like Derek Mackay, the correlation between the cities with high bike use and the cities with good cycling infrastructure is just coincidence.
"It's about the culture we want to deliver. That is about encouraging more people on to Active Travel: walking & cycling"
You know what "encourages" the masses to cycle? Segregated bike routes.
You know what I saw from a bus yesterday? A car parked in the cycle lane of the downhill lane on N Bank St.
Basically, as soon as a cyclist turned the corner at Coda, they'd have to see the car and slam on the brakes, and hope they don't skid.
That's dangerous parking... dangerous AND legal.
What are cyclists expected to do? Suddenly filter?
Posted 9 years ago # -
On the theme of cognitive dissonance, on the BBC website today there is an article bemoaning the apparent fact that British people are driving less (really?? REALLY???).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35242514
There is not even the slightest hint that it might then be a good time to start switching to other modes of transport. No, the "problem" is only that it is going to be hard to predict when people will start driving more, so we may as well just keep on going with massive road building schemes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"apparent fact that British people are driving less"
Thought it was established that 'young people' would rather play with their smartphones than drive(?)
Though being able to afford both may come into it.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thought it was established that 'young people' would rather play with their smartphones than drive(?)
A great many current motorists also would rather play with their mobile phones than drive of course!
Though being able to afford both may come into it.
This seems the most likely explanation. Car manufacturers are of course trying to solve this problem by building cars that connect to Facebook but people still need to do this when they are not driving.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm assuming that this is covering licensed drivers. Given the high costs of lessons and insurance, how many are just skipping the formalities and heading out on the roads? I think the estimate of uninsured drivers is into the millions.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Min "On the theme of cognitive dissonance"
Please add this to the relevant thread! :-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
"British people are driving less (really?? REALLY???)."
Does not apply to Scotland, here we're driving more than ever before (except Edinburgh).
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
@RantyHighwayman: @RantyHighwayman Scotland, your transport chappie really does talk cobblers. 1.9% of transport budget. Sheesh
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
@copenhagenize: @RantyHighwayman Denmark had a massive car assembly industry for Scandinavia. And yet we cycled @KlausBondam
"
Posted 9 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
